More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
Its a never ending story with any regulations for any trade, and from what I've heard the government are allowing fridge and aircon associations to force the hand of users of refrigeration processes. To only use fridge/aircon companies that are members of these associations, whether you've served these users for years, you will no longer be able to carryon doing so unless you join these third party industries that disguise themselves as leadership and technical associations.
This will mean ongoing assessments, renewing licences that are granted to members to carryout fridge work, having to buy more equipment (that you might only use once a year), renewable anual subscriptions, only being allowed to use their inventry forms and stationary, and and having to spend at least one day a year to go out with an area engineer to have your jobs inspected. It will be like CORGI/Gas Safe, HIPS, NICEIC, and the ECA, just being qualified and having the CITB/C&G won't be enough. Its about time the unions or a petition is made against such implementations of these idealist ideas. No good will come from it, except for the associations themselves.
Re: More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
It is called clipping the ticket.
Consider the OH&S bullshyte for one. It has generated a whole new industry for spin doctors. Then add all the enviroment experts as well.
Like I said, they are clipping the ticket. All an industry overhead cost.
Re: More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
I take it this is the case in New Zealand as well. I thought that you might have escaped it down there, but I suppose the bureaucratic mentality in New Zealand is the same as the British one.
Just as a matter of interest can a time served/qualified/licensed electrician, or gas engineer install a few extra sockets or a gas cooker in their kitchen. Without joining these third party industries or paying for a permit? Please tell this isn't the case in New Zealand.
Re: More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chilliwilly
Its a never ending story with any regulations for any trade, and from what I've heard the government are allowing fridge and aircon associations to force the hand of users of refrigeration processes. To only use fridge/aircon companies that are members of these associations, whether you've served these users for years, you will no longer be able to carryon doing so unless you join these third party industries that disguise themselves as leadership and technical associations.
This will mean ongoing assessments, renewing licences that are granted to members to carryout fridge work, having to buy more equipment (that you might only use once a year), renewable anual subscriptions, only being allowed to use their inventry forms and stationary, and and having to spend at least one day a year to go out with an area engineer to have your jobs inspected. It will be like CORGI/Gas Safe, HIPS, NICEIC, and the ECA, just being qualified and having the CITB/C&G won't be enough. Its about time the unions or a petition is made against such implementations of these idealist ideas. No good will come from it, except for the associations themselves.
Well hopefully now that cyclops has gone, this new government with it's promise to cut through health and safety ******** and red tape things will ease a little?/:
Re: More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chilliwilly
Its a never ending story with any regulations for any trade, and from what I've heard the government are allowing fridge and aircon associations to force the hand of users of refrigeration processes. To only use fridge/aircon companies that are members of these associations, whether you've served these users for years, you will no longer be able to carryon doing so unless you join these third party industries that disguise themselves as leadership and technical associations.
If I am reading this correctly the g.ment are allowing people to choose their contractor? Is this wrong?
Quote:
This will mean ongoing assessments, renewing licences that are granted to members to carryout fridge work, having to buy more equipment (that you might only use once a year), renewable anual subscriptions, only being allowed to use their inventry forms and stationary, and and having to spend at least one day a year to go out with an area engineer to have your jobs inspected. It will be like CORGI/Gas Safe, HIPS, NICEIC, and the ECA, just being qualified and having the CITB/C&G won't be enough. Its about time the unions or a petition is made against such implementations of these idealist ideas. No good will come from it, except for the associations themselves.
It's been on the cards for a couple of years. As I have long time argued for a 'corgi' type registration for fridge men I welcome this as an inevitable conclusion to the recent F-Gas legislation.
Please don't expect the unions to do anything as the fridge industry is not represented outside the big players and they are not likely to get involved in a fight against improved training and safety,
Again expecting the g.ment to cut red tape is naive in the extreme and whilst the last government was almost certainly the worst ever this one will do nothing particularly to change things for the better:D
Re: More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
multisync
If I am reading this correctly the g.ment are allowing people to choose their contractor? Is this wrong?
It's been on the cards for a couple of years. As I have long time argued for a 'corgi' type registration for fridge men I welcome this as an inevitable conclusion to the recent F-Gas legislation.
Please don't expect the unions to do anything as the fridge industry is not represented outside the big players and they are not likely to get involved in a fight against improved training and safety,
Again expecting the g.ment to cut red tape is naive in the extreme and whilst the last government was almost certainly the worst ever this one will do nothing particularly to change things for the better:D
People have chose their contractors for years without the need for them to join schemes or organisations. If you had a problem with your car you'd take it to a garage, and if you had a blocked toilet you'd ring a plumber.
I can't see how a set of theives like the ones you have mentioned will improve any standards whatsoever. All they will do is bullsh!t the government and mislead them into beleiving that this trade needs governing by a so called organisation who can't even tie their own shoe laces, but know how to count their easily made taxable funds (profits).
Try asking CORGI/Gas Safe or the NICEIC a technical question, see how long it takes them to answer a premium rate number, then phone them back and ask the same question and see if you get the same answer. Then see if your area inspecting engineer agrees with the upshot and result of the problem given to you by them after you have shown it to him. Then have a look how much they will charge you to reinspect the job that you have carried out on the advice that they gave to you.
You may think that carrying out fridge work is straight forward and I couldn't agree with you more. But as soon as you let a governing body issue rules and charge you for the privelage of complying with them, then charge you for not complying with them. The job will no longer be straight forward, it becomes politically complicated, and the term paralysis by analysis will become more common. All they will do is reinvent the wheel so you won't be able to move without them, and in turn you will loose your freedom and abillity to think for yourself and carry out your job.
No improvements to the methods of the trade will be made, the only improvements made will be the salaries of the hierarchy that run the organisation (s). As an aircon or refrigeration business, you will have to charge out at a higher rate to compensate for the cost of having to join these organisations. And in turn making yourself less competetive than businesses that refuse to join them, and who will carryon working as they have done for years, and refuse to have their hands held by and spanked by their "superiors".
And the worst thing of all will be the FACT that if the qualifications/licences are to only last for three years. This will mean that anyone employed by a firm who has to be a legal member of these organisations, will have a clause wrote into their employment contract that if they leave within that validity time, will have to pay the cost of the training/assessment. God help anyone whose licence runs out when they're 64, and they get laid off because their employers don't see it profitable to renew it.
Re: More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chilliwilly
People have chose their contractors for years without the need for them to join schemes or organisations. If you had a problem with your car you'd take it to a garage, and if you had a blocked toilet you'd ring a plumber.
I can't see how a set of theives like the ones you have mentioned will improve any standards whatsoever. All they will do is bullsh!t the government and mislead them into beleiving that this trade needs governing by a so called organisation who can't even tie their own shoe laces, but know how to count their easily made taxable funds (profits).
Sadly our industry has been in the main a ragtag bunch who couldn't organize a piss up. So if the trade won't regulate itself then as has been shown previously the G.Ment will. It was the one pushing REFCOM to take over as our own 'gassafe' it's only because REFCOM is a one man band and totally unable to rise to the challenge to become the regulatory body that one hasn't already been apointed
Question:.
Refrigerant has been made a hazzardous waste. Tell me your responsible plan to regulate its safe handling?
Quote:
Try asking CORGI/Gas Safe or the NICEIC a technical question, see how long it takes them to answer a premium rate number, then phone them back and ask the same question and see if you get the same answer. Then see if your area inspecting engineer agrees with the upshot and result of the problem given to you by them after you have shown it to him. Then have a look how much they will charge you to reinspect the job that you have carried out on the advice that they gave to you.
The difference in our industry is that we are being regulated with regard to refrigerant and that as it stands is pretty much all we can be regulated for. Therefore we have a tangible result which can be tracked and measured. We will not need a regulator to watch how we reclaim unless we are not returning sufficient quantities of gas.
Quote:
You may think that carrying out fridge work is straight forward and I couldn't agree with you more. But as soon as you let a governing body issue rules and charge you for the privelage of complying with them, then charge you for not complying with them. The job will no longer be straight forward, it becomes politically complicated, and the term paralysis by analysis will become more common. All they will do is reinvent the wheel so you won't be able to move without them, and in turn you will loose your freedom and abillity to think for yourself and carry out your job.
I remember (fondly) in the good old days when if you had to change a compressor then the first thing you did was connect the gauges and blow out the condenser. That has become illegal. Therefore the job has changed and regulations have been enforced. Some agree with them and some (probably most) hark back to the good old days of carrying a bottle of R12, R502 & R22 and knowing that was all you ever needed. No reclaim rig/bottle to clutter the van either.
Quote:
No improvements to the methods of the trade will be made, the only improvements made will be the salaries of the hierarchy that run the organisation (s). As an aircon or refrigeration business, you will have to charge out at a higher rate to compensate for the cost of having to join these organisations. And in turn making yourself less competetive than businesses that refuse to join them, and who will carryon working as they have done for years, and refuse to have their hands held by and spanked by their "superiors".
There are those who are members of NICEIC and those who aren't. However it has been shown that there is a legal obligation to be F-Gas registered and we all know there are some who refuse. What do you suggest?
Quote:
And the worst thing of all will be the FACT that if the qualifications/licences are to only last for three years. This will mean that anyone employed by a firm who has to be a legal member of these organisations, will have a clause wrote into their employment contract that if they leave within that validity time, will have to pay the cost of the training/assessment. God help anyone whose licence runs out when they're 64, and they get laid off because their employers don't see it profitable to renew it.
Quite right too. Training is a constant. A lot of the older engineers are the very ones who refuse to comply or fail the test if they try. The fact that engineers will be forced to pay for their own training is tough. If you want the qualification pay for it or do the time. We have the F-Gas qualification costs in our contract so we either stay or pay.
C&G are lifetime so I don't see this 'FACT' as being fact However if you have a link for the 3 year regulation then I'd love to read it.
Re: More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chilliwilly
This will mean ongoing assessments, renewing licences that are granted to members to carryout fridge work, having to buy more equipment (that you might only use once a year)....
Hi Chilli,
I'm curious to know what peice of equipment you had to buy but may only use once a year is?
I'm quite keen on gadgets and anything that makes the job easier, so am wondering if this is something usefull i have missed.
Cheers Jon :)
Re: More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
Hi Chillie.
A late response to your earlier comment/ question.
NZ invented the nutty factor, a householder can do anything electrical so long as checked and signed off by a registared electrician. Who would sign off something someone else has done and file a certificate of complience and quote registration licence number. Not many sparkies. With the gas thingo, certified gas fitters have to do the same process. For reticulation of household flammable stuff, usually plumbers that cannot weld copper pipe and burn in silfos. Plumbers are the highest paid trade in NZ due to hygene stuff, dunnies etc..
The most stupidest part of everything is electricians and now plumbers can install split a/c systems. And openly advertise the fact.
Where is the logic!!!!!.
Re: More third party industries cashing in on hard working folk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chilliwilly
Its a never ending story with any regulations for any trade, and from what I've heard the government are allowing fridge and aircon associations to force the hand of users of refrigeration processes. To only use fridge/aircon companies that are members of these associations, whether you've served these users for years, you will no longer be able to carryon doing so unless you join these third party industries that disguise themselves as leadership and technical associations.
This will mean ongoing assessments, renewing licences that are granted to members to carryout fridge work, having to buy more equipment (that you might only use once a year), renewable anual subscriptions, only being allowed to use their inventry forms and stationary, and and having to spend at least one day a year to go out with an area engineer to have your jobs inspected. It will be like CORGI/Gas Safe, HIPS, NICEIC, and the ECA, just being qualified and having the CITB/C&G won't be enough. Its about time the unions or a petition is made against such implementations of these idealist ideas. No good will come from it, except for the associations themselves.
If indeed this is a fact, then it is just a union type of closed shop by the back door.
Some skullduggery is going on with these afore mentioned associations lobbying the last (terrible)Government being my guess.
Corruption is normally easily identifiable when the issue flies against common sense.
This is the case with "Health and Safety", sure everyone intelligent person knows it is important but is has to be "sensible" Health & Safety, the emphasis being on SENSIBLE!
