Daikin vrv addressing

Hi guys
I have got a vrv system with 9 units on. All units up till now all run on the same remote. (brc1d528) but now the offices have been partitioned into smaller areas. One area has 5 units then the other 4 are in there own seperate rooms.

So the client wants to be able to control them individually. The catch is we can't add any more controllers.

So I have been looking in manuals etc.. And I think my next step is to go around and wire a controller onto each unit and address them.

I'm pretty sure this is done by wiring a controller into the units and giving it a address. Can this be done with the other control cable be wired into the unit?

Do I have to turn anything off and re-set anything?

And lastly is this the best way to do it?
Example:

room one with one unit in
addressing as group 1 unit 1 so it would be 1-01

then room two with 5 units in being:
group 2 unit 1 then group 2 unit 2

so 02-01 and 02-02 and so on?

Will the remote I already have on the wall work with group control or will I need to get a new one? And can this stay connected while I wire the other remote in too every unit and address it?

Sorry for all the questions it's just I want to make sure it's right :)

many thank

Hi Alec,

The group addressing you mentioned is only possible if there is some from of external control device installed. Do have an I Touch Controller / I manager / Bacnet Gateway on this site?

If not you will have to install additional remote controller (BRC1D527)

hi
there is no I touch controller. I can get one of the ones you said though. Is the process I explained how I would set it up though?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alec

hi
there is no I touch controller. I can get one of the ones you said though. Is the process I explained how I would set it up though?

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Do you only want to control 1 outdoor/system?

Are the outdoor units 3 pipe heat recovery(REY) units or 2 pipe heat pump/cooling only (RXY/RX) ?

Are the outdoor(s) H, K, L, M or P series (example RXYQ10M7)

To control the units from an DCS601C51 I controller (which are expensive)

1. Install controller in suitable location and connect F1F2 0.75mm 2 core non-screened cable from controller to outdoor F1F2 OUT terminals.
2. Power up controller, follow on screen settings (input time date, battery switch on ect then stop when you reach control point registration screen.
3. Then go round addressing indoor unit group numbers (64 max) You will need to connect a controller to each unit to set group numbers, switch of power to unit and diconnect controller. These are normally done numerically from 1-00~1-15, 2-00~2-15, 3-00~3-15, 4-00~4-15. However they could be adressed in any order.
4. Click latest refresh and check all the indoors you addressed are picked up then click on ADD ALL then OK.
5. Controller will re initialise with registered indoors.

Ye it's a 3 pipe system with one condenser.
They don't want an I touch due to the price.

When I wire a remote in to address can I turn power off wire remote in turn it on? Or does it have to be done live?

And for the address settings are you saying group 2 doesn't have to be 02-01 it could e for example addresses as 1.03 bit using a central control you can put it into a group so can be set individually?

So the 9 units would literally go 01-01 to 01-09 in any order and then I can pick the ones that are in the same area and place them into a group.
Many thanks

[quote=alec;170037]Ye it's a 3 pipe system with one condenser. If you have a 3 pipe you will need to check how many BS boxes there are and which indoors are connected to each box. If you have more than 1 indoor sharing a box the indoors should be serving the same area.
ie you don't want 1 indoor in a partitioned office and another in the open office when they are fed from the same box as both indoors can only operate in the same mode dictated by BS box/master indoor

They don't want an I touch due to the price. Are you using any form of centralised control? You would only programme group numbers and you can only access the group address setting when there is centralised control device connected.

When I wire a remote in to address can I turn power off wire remote in turn it on? Or does it have to be done live? To programme group numbers you would connect and programme with power on then switch off to disconnect.

And for the address settings are you saying group 2 doesn't have to be 02-01 it could e for example addresses as 1.03 Yes correct providing the indoors are not G series with rotary switches for adressing.
bit using a central control you can put it into a group so can be set individually? This would be set at the cenralised control device or you could address the master indoors only and the slaves will follow (providing there is a controller conected to that group of indoors).

So the 9 units would literally go 01-01 to 01-09 in any order and then I can pick the ones that are in the same area and place them into a group. Yes correct but the addresses would normally go from 1-00 to 1-08 for 9 units.

At the moment the one remote controller is connected to all 9 indoor units with a daisy chain on the indoor unit P1 P2 terminals ?

The remote controller will only control those units which it is connected to on theindoor unit P1 P2 remote controller ternminals.

So you can change the remote control wiring to just connect to the 5 indoor units which are in the open plan area.
In this case no need for any address setting.

The problem is how to control the other units as they are all installed in small office one unit in each office ?

The easy way would be to install a new remote control for each indoor unit provided it has its own BS box by installing a remote controller with direct wiring connection to the indoor unit P1 P2 terminals. Again no need to make address settings.

But in this case no more wall mounted remote controllers are allowed ?Perhaps the end user will not allow mini trunking to remote controller as this would spoil the decoration of the room ?

So you could install a central controller but that is too expensive.

Perhaps you could investigate retro fitting infra red receiver to each indoor unit & use infra red remote control instead for these units.

I myself have not seen any contractor do this before but suspect it might be a cost effective possible solution.

Alec,

Do you have the older style centralised controller (DCS302)?

I suspect you may be getting confused between group control and programming group addresses.

GROUP CONTROL = Is when you have more than 1 indoor connected to a standard remote controller (BRC1D527) and would be wired using the P1P2 connections from the remote to each indoor in series. This will auto address unit 0, 1, 2, ……
No setting is required. All indoors in the connected group will have the same set point, on/off and operation mode.

GROUP NUMBER ADDRESSES = This is a unique number that is programmed into each indoor to allow the central control device to communicate with the indoors using the F1F2 comms line.
A central control device can be connected to a system(s), with or without a standard remotes installed on the indoors.
The group address field setting can only be accessed when a central control device is connected.

VrvIII ye I think I am a bit confused between the two from what I can understand if you had 20 units on a system with individual remotes they would have initially been given a number by the condenser Is this group control?

But if say There was also going to be a centrelized controller I would have to go around and Give them a group number address so they can be seen by the centralized controller?

Now back to my problem I have given the client and they are deciding. I have suggested putting one controller on the units in one space and then seperate ones on the other units.
The I touch is a bit pricey and I don't think it's that up end user friendly.

If I had 10 units 5 one remote in one area and 5 on there own in there own rooms with there own controllers and there was also going to be centralized controller I would have the indivdually address them wouldn't I?
Would the 5 units on one controller have to have a remote wired in so I could address them or could I do it on the one controller?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alec

VrvIII ye I think I am a bit confused between the two from what I can understand if you had 20 units on a system with individual remotes they would have initially been given a number by the condenser Is this group control?

But if say There was also going to be a centrelized controller I would have to go around and Give them a group number address so they can be seen by the centralized controller?

Now back to my problem I have given the client and they are deciding. I have suggested putting one controller on the units in one space and then seperate ones on the other units.
The I touch is a bit pricey and I don't think it's that up end user friendly.

If I had 10 units 5 one remote in one area and 5 on there own in there own rooms with there own controllers and there was also going to be centralized controller I would have the indivdually address them wouldn't I?
Would the 5 units on one controller have to have a remote wired in so I could address them or could I do it on the one controller?

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VrvIII ye I think I am a bit confused between the two from what I can understand if you had 20 units on a system with individual remotes they would have initially been given a number by the condenser Is this group control?
No if you have individual remotes on every indoor this is not group control, group control relates to a remote controlling a group of indoors (2 or more / 16 max).
These would be wired using P1P2 connections and has nothing to do with outdoor auto addressing the indoors (this is done automatically during initialization and you can’t adjust this manually).


But if say There was also going to be a centrelized controller I would have to go around and Give them a group number address so they can be seen by the centralized controller?
Yes, you would be programming a number that the centralized controller will recognize and allow comms from the controller to that unit.

Now back to my problem I have given the client and they are deciding. I have suggested putting one controller on the units in one space and then seperate ones on the other units.
I think this would be the best option providing there’s 1 bs box per indoor.

The I touch is a bit pricey and I don't think it's that up end user friendly.
The I controller is quite simple if you get enough time to play with it

If I had 10 units 5 one remote in one area and 5 on there own in there own rooms with there own controllers and there was also going to be centralized controller I would have the indivdually address them wouldn't I?
Yes but only if you are installing a centralized controller

Would the 5 units on one controller have to have a remote wired in so I could address them or could I do it on the one controller?
You could address them all from the controller using field setting 30 (providing they are all connected to the controller by P1P2 wiring.

Last week I was trouble shooting on a site with VRVll & the enduser still did not get the hang of using the Itouch controller even after over 2 years of trying with benifit of the full instruction manual.

It is just not user frendly

Dont get me wrong , there is alot which is good about Daikin VRV
but
centralised control has never been Daikins strength.

Lots of enginners will now shoot me down in flames for being critical of the almighty D
but
There are better , much better centrallised controllers which are more user freindly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thermatech

Last week I was trouble shooting on a site with VRVll & the enduser still did not get the hang of using the Itouch controller even after over 2 years of trying with benifit of the full instruction manual.

It is just not user frendly

Dont get me wrong , there is alot which is good about Daikin VRV
but
centralised control has never been Daikins strength.

Lots of enginners will now shoot me down in flames for being critical of the almighty D
but
There are better , much better centrallised controllers which are more user freindly.

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Very diplomatic Thermatech :eek:

I must admit they take a bit getting your head round especially to set up/commission some of the advanced functions (but the training course is really good and can save you a lot of time & complaints from end user)
The basic end user functions are fairly straight forward if there given a quick demo.

Also I don’t think there is another manufactures controller that has same level of possible control functions.

But look on the bright side this helps keep us all in a job :D

So if you installed a vrv 3 with every unit being lopped of one normal remote. They would auto get grouped? And you can leave it like that? Is that when you can use setting 43 to run each unit in fan only to determine which is which fan coil?

But if for instance you had 3 units on one remote and 2 seperate units with there own controllers. (all with there own bs units) and wanting to add a I touch controller.

I could give the 3 units an address each with the one controller installed on the wall for instance 01-00 01-01 01-02
then the seperate units use the idividual controllers to give them the address 01-03 and 01-04?

Then connect the I touch up and pick the units up and give them room names and put them into there own groups etc....

Would these mean that a unit that I origionally used service 43 to fund the numbered units say I was looking at number 4 and I changed it to address number 01-02 would now show as being number 2 wheb using service code 43 so if a fault came up on that unit it would show it as unit 3 so I could label it correctly? If there was a power cut would it remember it's address number?

Also if I addresses 3 units in a loop from one controller how would I know which one I'm making 1,2 or 3?
Sorry for so Manu questions i just really want to get my head around the systems as my company are now only using Daikin kit.

Back to my origionally post all Units are on one controller so if they decide they want and I touch. Could I address all the units via the controller that's already there? Then install the I touch?

Many thanks for all your help guys ireally appreciate it :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alec

So if you installed a vrv 3 with every unit being lopped of one normal remote. They would auto get grouped? And you can leave it like that? Is that when you can use setting 43 to run each unit in fan only to determine which is which fan coil?

But if for instance you had 3 units on one remote and 2 seperate units with there own controllers. (all with there own bs units) and wanting to add a I touch controller.

I could give the 3 units an address each with the one controller installed on the wall for instance 01-00 01-01 01-02
then the seperate units use the idividual controllers to give them the address 01-03 and 01-04?

Then connect the I touch up and pick the units up and give them room names and put them into there own groups etc....

Would these mean that a unit that I origionally used service 43 to fund the numbered units say I was looking at number 4 and I changed it to address number 01-02 would now show as being number 2 wheb using service code 43 so if a fault came up on that unit it would show it as unit 3 so I could label it correctly? If there was a power cut would it remember it's address number?

Also if I addresses 3 units in a loop from one controller how would I know which one I'm making 1,2 or 3?
Sorry for so Manu questions i just really want to get my head around the systems as my company are now only using Daikin kit.

Back to my origionally post all Units are on one controller so if they decide they want and I touch. Could I address all the units via the controller that's already there? Then install the I touch?

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So if you installed a vrv 3 with every unit being lopped of one normal remote. They would auto get grouped? And you can leave it like that? Is that when you can use setting 43 to run each unit in fan only to determine which is which fan coil?
Yes that would be classed as group control and it would be possible to use service code 43 to identify the auto address sequence.

But if for instance you had 3 units on one remote and 2 seperate units with there own controllers. (all with there own bs units) and wanting to add a I touch controller.
I could give the 3 units an address each with the one controller installed on the wall for instance 01-00 01-01 01-02
then the seperate units use the idividual controllers to give them the address 01-03 and 01-04?
Yes

Then connect the I touch up and pick the units up and give them room names and put them into there own groups etc....
Yes but you would need to connect the I controller first to obtain access to group number field setting

Would these mean that a unit that I origionally used service 43 to fund the numbered units say I was looking at number 4 and I changed it to address number 01-02 would now show as being number 2 wheb using service code 43 so if a fault came up on that unit it would show it as unit 3 so I could label it correctly? If there was a power cut would it remember it's address number?
No, the programmed group number it stored on the indoor pcb and will not be effected by mains power failure or modifying the auto address sequence.

So if I make a unit that was unit 3 and I make it unit one and a fault comes up it won't say fault on unit one?

Cheers guys for the help I think I'm slowly getting there.
I think it is confusing with all the number groups, addresses etc... Lol

can someone give me a little walkthrough please :)
if you where to commission from new a vrv that had for example 9 indoor units then with 5 in a open space and the other 4 in there individual rooms. With one I touch controller to be installed where would you start?

Would you power up and address everything run it all and then set the itouch up? Or would you address all units going round with one controller and wiring it in to every unit? Then putti g the I touch up?

Many thanks

Just an update
the client has gone for a central controller which is the older one that is twice he size of a normal controller but not colour or touch screen. I know this has to wired to the condenser etc...
We have 5 units in an open space and 4 in individual rooms.
They are all going to be controlled from this one remote.

At the moment there is a normal vrv remote which is daisy chained accross all units. Can I address them all from this one controller? How do I go about does this ie- when in the service mode how do I know which unit I'm making which? Or am I better of going round with a seperate remote in every unit?

If I do this can I turn the units isolater off? Wire the remote in and then turn it on and address it? If so can the power be turned back off? Will it remember it's address setting? Then once they are all addressed can I litterally discount the controller and wore the central controller up? How does this pick up the units?

Many thanks

Ys

I have one last question about this topic and it is:

if I use the excisting controller to address all fan coils (as they are already linked via p1 p2)
how do I know which unit and I'm making which? Hope that makes sense

as if I went round and wired a controller into everyone individually then I could make note as I addressed each one. But as there is already p1 p2 running from every unit can I take advantage off this?
Ie
use it to give units 1-9 address numbers then bring them up in the centralized. Also 5 units are in a open area so they all want to be controlled together eg all on/off.

Do I group or zone them using the centralized?

Cheers guys

Alec,

Address each fan coil individually; go round each fan coil and hook up an RC to P1/P2 and set up address.
I gather you are fitting RC's to the 4 individual offices and 1 RC to the open plan area.
As for the central control, then it all depends on the clients requirements. I would just program them in as a selective group as at the moment you're only operating 1 VRV.
Infact, is there really a need for a central controller?

regards,
Jase