PDA

View Full Version : noise pollution



superswill
07-08-2007, 08:20 PM
Evening all

Right while on going about my business today I got asked a question my a client, they problem is where they live they back onto a shop that outside has iam told a very noisy refrigeration unit, so she wanted to know where they stand with planning permission and noise pollution ,my answer was that I think there is a DB level that when breached is classed as noise pollution, I was thinking noisy neighbours, dog, music ect but where they stand with plant equipment I don’t know, had a search on the net and cant find anything pacific to this, and the answer just seems to be go talk to them and then ring your council


Can anyone shed any light on this please

The Viking
07-08-2007, 09:11 PM
The noise pollution laws are local ByLaws, therefore they and the hours they are covering might vary.

Most councils enforce these laws quite strictly and a call to the local council will tell him exactly how to proceed.

---------------------------------------------
A couple of years ago one of our customers asked us to attend a meeting between them, some of their neighbours and the council's noise pollution officer, all to discuss the removal of their chillers from the roof as they were too noisy. (This was in Royal Windsor, just of High St)
So there we are 2 MDs, 5 neighbours, 2 Council officials, one secretary and me.
As we walk in to the meeting room I ask one of the council workers exactly what levels (db) they considered to be above the limit and during which hours this limit applied.
I can't remember what the limit was but it came in force at 9pm.
That must been the shortest meeting in history of man, no one even got a drink (well, apart from me that is, I got a few for the money in the envelope the customer gave me. Did I mention that they are tax solicitors:D)
Before we sat down I asked when the noise was disturbing them (the neighbours) and the most agitated gentleman answered "every day, those bl##dy machines are running Monday to Friday from 8 in the morning to 6 in the afternoon."
After that the council guys looked quite embarrassed as they made their excuses and left.

:cool:

Lowrider
07-08-2007, 10:27 PM
Where I used to live, Haarlem, the Netherlands, it depended on where you live. If your in a industrial area, no luck, no complaining! Parts with lots of shops and bars, no noise complaints until 1 am or so and in living area's no considerable noise after 10 pm.

However I had a shop abouth 10 meters away from my house with an unit on the roof which ratled beyond believe and would start and stop every 10 minutes!

I went to them to ask them to have the unit checked! They said the unit was fine, no noise complaints from them, so I could have one too!

After 2 weeks in summertime and the unit ratling on and off, I took my ladder and had a look myself!

The unit didn't have any maintenance don in 6 years (35 kg R22). So I went to the owner once more, confronted him with my problem and told him I was willing to have a look at it for free! He said the unit was just fine and I was a pain in the *ss.

One thing left, I called the environmentle police on them and they were told to have the unit checked and repaired within a fourthnight or they would recieve a fine off, I believe, 5000 euro for an environmentle offence and told him he was lucky to get only that!

superswill
07-08-2007, 10:59 PM
many thankx all,hope this will take the blank look of my face if asked again ok so mayby not but input much appreciated

Argus
08-08-2007, 09:45 AM
many thankx all,hope this will take the blank look of my face if asked again ok so mayby not but input much appreciated



There is definitely EU legislation (and UK national laws as a result) on outdoor sound limits and I believe that it covers fixed refrigeration and other types of similar equipment.

The problem is that the UK local authority can, in extreme cases, enforce closure orders on the offending equipment.

I don't have the references to hand at the minute.
You (or your customer) need to do a bit of searching. Alternatively, wait for the first enforced complaint, then do the needful.

.

DVaider
08-08-2007, 11:45 AM
Hi, Superswill. You should ask someone from any building company (I think builders also have got their own forums :)). They must know everything about DB limits.

paul_h
08-08-2007, 04:36 PM
It's a local council/local government job to enforce it here. It's some ridicuosly low dB as well, like 40dB. So every air con or outdoor refrig cond unit breaks it, as well as any car.
As I do warranty support for manufacturers I've been sent to heaps of "noisy" units. The owner has called us after their neighbour has complained, the local government guy has come out and told the owner it's too loud, so the owner hopes to handball it back to the manufacturer.
Bottom line, most recip, rotary and scroll units are noisy, the manufacturers tell you the dB, the local government tells you their accepted noise level.
It's up to the equipment owner to find a solution for the problem.
The neighbour shouldn't have to live with it (the local gov will enforce that part), the manufacturer has given the information to the installer or architect.
The installer has to modify, repair, or move the unit to a place that doesn't affect neighbours.
The local authorities measure the sound level from the neighbours side, so the best bet when installing something is not put it up high, or put it down the side of the property where it's more likely to be close to the fence. Put it at ground level, out the back where it's further away from neighbours.

bernard
08-08-2007, 06:34 PM
Hi

You should find some info here

http://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/index.htm

Regards Bernard:)

Abe
08-08-2007, 09:04 PM
Ive done some quick research and theres quite a bit of legislation . So not as to have one huge chunk Ill break it down.




Noise pollution
[256]
Local authorities have powers to take summary proceedings for the abatement of nuisance caused by noise1. In addition, regulations may be made for reducing noise from plant and equipment2, and codes of practice for minimising noise issued3. These statutory controls supplement, but do not replace, common law remedies regarding nuisance.





Noise and Statutory Nuisance Act 1993
1993 CHAPTER 40

An Act to make provision for noise in a street to be a statutory nuisance; to make provision with respect to the operation of loudspeakers in a street; to make provision with respect to audible intruder alarms; to make provision for expenses incurred by local authorities in abating, or preventing the recurrence of, a statutory nuisance to be a charge on the premises to which they relate; and for connected purposes

Abe
08-08-2007, 09:05 PM
Environmental Protection Act 1995 s120 Schedule 24
79 Statutory nuisances and inspections therefor

(1) [Subject to subsections (1A) to (6A) below] , the following matters constitute “statutory nuisances” for the purposes of this Part, that is to say—

(a) any premises in such a state as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;

(b) smoke emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;

(c) fumes or gases emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;

(d) any dust, steam, smell or other effluvia arising on industrial, trade or business premises and being prejudicial to health or a nuisance;

(e) any accumulation or deposit which is prejudicial to health or a nuisance;

(f) any animal kept in such a place or manner as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;

[(fa) any insects emanating from relevant industrial, trade or business premises and being prejudicial to health or a nuisance;]

[(fb) artificial light emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;]
(g) noise emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;

[(ga) noise that is prejudicial to health or a nuisance and is emitted from or caused by a vehicle, machinery or equipment in a street [or in Scotland, road];]

(h) any other matter declared by any enactment to be a statutory nuisance;


and it shall be the duty of every local authority to cause its area to be inspected from time to time to detect any statutory nuisances which ought to be dealt with under section 80 below [or sections 80 and 80A below] and, where a complaint of a statutory nuisance is made to it by a person living within its area, to take such steps as are reasonably practicable to investigate the complaint.

Abe
08-08-2007, 09:07 PM
This is the European Legislation

2001 No 1701
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

Noise Emission in the Environment by Equipment for use Outdoors Regulations 2001
Made 3rd May 2001
Laid before Parliament 3rd May 2001
Coming into forceRegulations 1, 2 and 14 4th June 2001Remaining regulations 3rd July 2001

I have not included the list, but the list is long.........

Abe
08-08-2007, 09:08 PM
By the way.........

Vibration is classed as NOISE
:)

Abe
08-08-2007, 09:29 PM
I may as well quote the European list

2001 No 1701
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
Noise Emission in the Environment by Equipment for use Outdoors Regulations 2001
Made 3rd May 2001
Laid before Parliament 3rd May 2001
Coming into forceRegulations 1, 2 and 14 4th June 2001Remaining regulations 3rd July 2001


==========================================

(1) In these Regulations—
(a) “the Directive” means Directive 2000/14/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council on the approximation of the laws of the Member States relating to the noise emission in the environment by equipment for use outdoors;

(b) except for the references to the European Communities in the definition of “the Commission” and in relation to the Official Journal, a reference to the Community includes a reference to the EEA, and a reference to a member State includes a reference to an EEA State: for this purpose—

(i) the “EEA” means the European Economic Area;
(ii) an “EEA State” means a State which is a Contracting Party to the EEA Agreement; and

(iii) the “EEA Agreement” means the Agreement on the European Economic Area signed at Oporto on 2nd May 1992 as adjusted by the Protocol signed at Brussels on 17th March 1993; and

(c) unless the context otherwise requires, a reference to a numbered regulation or Schedule is a reference to the regulation or Schedule so numbered in these

(iv) to an Article is a reference to an Article of the Directive.

(2) In these Regulations, unless the context otherwise
(1) of Schedule 13;

“equipment” means equipment for use outdoors;
“equipment for use outdoors” means all machinery defined in Article 1(2) of Directive 98/37/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22nd June 1998 on the approximation of the laws of the Member States relating to machinery, that is to say;

— an assembly of linked parts or components, at least one of which moves, with the appropriate actuators, control and power circuits, and so on, joined together for a specific application, in particular for the processing, treatment, moving or packaging of a material, or

— an assembly of machines which, in order to achieve the same end, are arranged and controlled so that they function as an integral whole, or

— interchangeable equipment modifying the function of a machine, which is placed on the market for the purpose of being assembled with a machine or a series of different machines or with a tractor by the operator himself insofar as this equipment is not a spare part or a tool;

which is either self-propelled or can be moved and which, irrespective of the driving element(s), is intended to be used, according to its type, in the open air and which contributes to environmental noise exposure, including non-powered equipment for industrial or environmental applications which is intended, according to its type, to be used outdoors and which contributes to environmental noise exposure;

“indication of the guaranteed sound power level” means the indication referred to in regulation 11 in the form shown in Schedule 7;

“open air” includes the use of equipment in an ambience where the transmission of sound is not or not significantly affected (for instance, under tents, under roofs for protection against rain or in the shell of houses);

“responsible person” means
(a) the manufacturer;

(b) the manufacturer's authorised representative established in the Community; or

(c) where neither the manufacturer nor his authorised representative is established in the Community, the person placing the equipment on the market or putting it into service in the Community;

“guaranteed sound power level” means a sound power level determined in accordance with the requirements laid down in Schedule 6 which includes the uncertainties due to production variation and measurement procedures and where the responsible person confirms that according to the technical instruments applied and referred to in the technical documentation it is not exceeded;

“measured sound power level” means a sound power level as determined from measurements as laid down in Schedule 6; measured values may be determined either from a single machine representative for the type of equipment or from the average of a number of machines;
“notified body” shall be construed in accordance with regulation 13;

“sound power level LWA” means the A-weighted sound power level in dB in relation to 1pW as defined in EN ISO 3744: 1995 and EN ISO 3746: 1995.

superswill
08-08-2007, 09:41 PM
many thankx again to everyone who has joined in this thread,all info helped.seems ive open quite a can of worms here

paul

TXiceman
09-08-2007, 11:02 PM
To make a unit less noisy, you will have to provide inlet/outlet air diffusers as well as low noise fans. Company I used to work for built special low noise unit to meet some very demanding specs. If you can not get low enough with an axial fan, you will need to go to a centrifugal fan unit.

Making an air cooled unit quiet is not impossible. More and more places are placing a noise restriction based on a maximum DBA at the property boundary.

In this case, they may be able to erect a simple sound barrier to absorb specific frequencies and reflect the sound upward.

Ken

Argus
09-08-2007, 11:10 PM
.

We all know it's serious. There are ASBOs available for the asking.

Just to lighten the mood somewhat, here's a parallel story in the news today here in the UK:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/6936858.stm

I am not making this up - it's 24 hours, not 9 to 5!

Abe
10-08-2007, 11:04 AM
.
Just to lighten the mood somewhat, here's a parallel story in the news today here in the UK:


Sorry Argus,

I know I overloaded the cart up a bit!!
:)

Abes

Argus
10-08-2007, 11:16 AM
.

I know, Abe, it’s a huge grey area in the UK.

I have an idea that outdoor noise is a consideration for planning control, but that’s another huge area of unexplored British law.

….but you could be living next door to the lady in Leeds, in which case I’d prefer to listen to a chiller.

.

The Viking
10-08-2007, 11:55 AM
+ 1

At least the chiller is prettier to look at.

The MG Pony
11-08-2007, 08:32 PM
LOL

I like my games so loud you feel the mortal shells clean in the cheast when they detonate (Day of defeat WW2 sim) So, I moved to an industrial zone :D

But now to your problem as others said, noise dampening structer will help.

Youssef
06-11-2007, 02:14 PM
A lot of noise complaints i hear of are actually vibration related (nod to Abe).
Anti-Vibration mounts fitted to units, especially wall mounted, can make significant improvements.
Also with standard 'noise-outbreak' issues, if no prior checks (acceptable dB level) or permissions are collected then some form of acoustic/attenuated housing/screen is required which can be expansive!

We will ALWAYS get someone complaining. I've heard people (nosey neighbours) comment on plant 'LOOKING' noisy before it was even fired up!