DIY install???

[malcoa]

hi,
I've today been asked to install 2 "DIY" units, looking through the destructions and the method suggested for removing air and moisture is bizzarre, apparently i dont need to vac out or pressure test, but couple up the pipes (not sealed quickfits but pre flared copper ends)open the lp valve from the condenser for 6 seconds then close it then check for leaks with soapy water, then (taken from instructions)
push in the ‘tyre inflator’ style valve on the T-branch valve (SIDE OF BOTTOM VALVE) for 4 – 5 seconds using a screwdriver or similar, to expel the air in the pipe-work.
This cant be legal can it???

[The Viking]

No, it can't.
At least not here in UK.

Who sold this unit?

[malcoa]

not sure, the client has had these units in storage, allegedly they are new and unused & admittedly they look it, they have some kind of spacey logo on the condenser.

are these kind of "DIY" installs common place in the uk these days i wonder.

[robin r33 gtr]

Iv seen some units like this on ebay from china made by a company called nett. They say they are DIY just to sell them.

[The MG Pony]

Well concidering they're using R-134a & R-152a as air duster whats some more refrigerant to the atmospherre <_<

[Brian_UK]

Just remember that if you are installing them, as an electrician, you will no doubt be issuing a suitable certificate about your installation.

The customer needs this to go with the building records.

How do you explain that you have installed equipment against current standards on your documents?

[airefresco]

not sure, the client has had these units in storage, allegedly they are new and unused & admittedly they look it, they have some kind of spacey logo on the condenser.

are these kind of "DIY" installs common place in the uk these days i wonder.

Is the logo blue?

[Paulajayne]

If you install them as per the instructions then you are breaking UK law, and I would imagine many other countries laws as well.

If you dont install them then some "cowboy" will, I would do the job but in such a way as to comply. I would also let the customer know that there is a problem with the instructions.

These aren't by any chance B&Q items?


Paula

[Abe]

Malcoa

If you have a digital camera, posting some pictures may help us too visualise this particular product

Any chance of getting some?

[malcoa]

the logo was/is blue, my intention is to comply with the standards, i`ll try to get photo's if the job goes ahead but its likely to be a week or two away, never looked at a b&q m/c so i cant say

[airefresco]

I think I know the units you are talking about. They sound like Tekion units. The old 407c units had a blue logo which if you looks closly is a map of asia. The newer 410a units have a green logo.

The instructions are same as you describe. Over here we have similar units which can be bought in DIY shops. There is a sticker on the side of the condenser with the model and serial etc, and instructions on how to purge the lines for "first time use". I can´t remember which brand it is, there are so many over here lately, but it´s either Ventop or Thor.

[Eeram]

Why go with the destruction manual or instructions?

Do the job as per qualified technician, first pressure test (hopefully with dry nitrogen) and then vacuum and open up the valves on the condensing unit!

Old Refrigeration Technicians never die, they just leak out!

[Larry2]

If you install them as per the instructions then you are breaking UK law, and I would imagine many other countries laws as well.

Paula

Venting the refrigerant to purge the lines isn't legal here in the US either. Many of the units on eBay are R22 units, not R134A.

The problem is many of these units are not fitted with proper service connections either, making it a bit of a problem to connect your vacuum pump to do it right.

[fridge doctor]

With apologies to readers anywhere other than UK..... When the B&Q units (Airforce) first appeared about 2 summers ago I was horrified that there was a clear implication contained within the advertising that this was a DIY job, although there was some rather vague mention that the purchaser might need professional help. I immediately wrote to the manager of my local store (no use trying to confront him/her as they are rarely there) and outlined the considerable risks involved to the purchaser, his family, neighbours and the environment. I was 'rewarded' with an immediate telephone call, the gist of which was that the manager had no idea of the potential problems, and he felt sure his company did not either. He promised that he would look into it and forward my letter to HO without delay...

2 years on nothing has changed.. B&Q are still selling the kit !

[Argus]

.

I think that the B&Q Airforce units are on the way out.

Firstly there’s a strong indication from the Govt and the EU commission that the new F Gas Regulations prohibiting the sale of products containing controlled substances (F Gases) and the installation by non-qualified individuals (the public) will be extended to cover these do-it-yourself units, even though they are not equipped with service valves.
The true extent of the Regulation is expected to be finalised later this year and it’s a loop-hole to be plugged.

Secondly, despite the crappiest summer in years and disastrous rain in some parts of the country (UK, that is), the presence of domestic A/C is still relatively buoyant, but in my local B&Q last week the Airforce units were piled on the end of a row and were under price-reduced offer.

B&Q can probably see the writing on the wall.

Incidentally, B&Q are still in breach of another law, or at least they were in the branch I visited last week. This A/C product requires an energy efficiency label to be displayed at the point of sale (just like washing machines and fridges, A, rating good to G rating, bad).
I have yet to see one on display in B&Q as they should be.

.

[gazzza]

In NZ there is currently a huge problem with chinese units that have been imported and are being sold through DIY wholesalers. There are now strong requirments to meet prior to importation of these units.
The company i work for has recently been contracted to follow behind so called certified installers and clean up there mess of improper and poor installations. My biggest gripe is hearing how good some electricians are then having them allowed to install air conditioning units with out any basic refrigeration training.
ELECTRICIANS AND BUILDERS SHOULD STICK TO WHAT THEY KNOW AND LEAVE A/C AND FRIGE TECHS TO DO WHAT THEY KNOW!

[frank]

.
Firstly there’s a strong indication from the Govt and the EU commission that the new F Gas Regulations prohibiting the sale of products containing controlled substances (F Gases) and the installation by non-qualified individuals (the public) will be extended to cover these do-it-yourself units, even though they are not equipped with service valves.
The true extent of the Regulation is expected to be finalised later this year and it’s a loop-hole to be plugged.
How does this relate to the sale of central heating boilers by B&Q, and others, Argus, as these must surely be covered by CORGI?
Or is it just the installation of such appliances that is covered by legislation?

[Argus]

How does this relate to the sale of central heating boilers by B&Q, and others, Argus, as these must surely be covered by CORGI?
Or is it just the installation of such appliances that is covered by legislation?

I’ll admit here and now that I’m not an expert on the laws of central heating, but my understanding is that when you buy a boiler, you do just that.

There’s nothing to stop you buying it, fixing it to the wall and fitting the WATER pipes – but NOT working on the gas side.
The offence under the gas regulations and the various ACOPs is that of working on live gas when not qualified or certified.
(If there’s a better take on the subject by someone more knowledgeable on this subject, we’d like to hear of it)

The F Gas regulations on the other hand seek to restrict the sale of products containing controlled substances (F Gases) and the subsequent use of F Gas in the terms of the F Gas regulation.

The problem with the new F Gas regulation so far is, in my opinion, contained in the inadequate drafting in the first place that leaves a number of areas and questions unaddressed - typically, the question of DIY units.

.

[Argus]

.

Here's the A/C department at my local B&Q.

Note the space-saving outdoor unit already conveniently piped up.

In fact, they are selling it all off with a 33% reduction and this end of line bin is all there is.

.

[Lowrider]

Note the space-saving outdoor unit already conveniently piped up.

And correctly positioned?

[Argus]

And correctly positioned?

Absolutely!

It's in tip-top condition.

You won't find a better example on the planet.

.

[Lowrider]

Quote:
Originally Posted by: Sanderh

And correctly positioned?


Absolutely!

It's in tip-top condition.

You won't find a better example on the planet.

And why didn't any of you tell me this any sooner, would have saved me a bundle of work!!!!!!!!!!!

[borodave1973]

I think there are still plenty of dodgy ac installers who still use the purge method am sure some work where i do..........:(