whos to blame??

[contenv]

Not really a techcy so please forgive my lack of knowlege!. recently ( 2 months ago) had a new build installation consisting of two dual discharge evap units and a 15kw condensing unit, to cool a chillstore to hold at 3 degrees.This week to my horror, the compressor ( frascold)seized with not a drop of oil i the sight glass!!. I have learned that amongst other things, it could be due to icing of the evap units or more likely a slug of liquid had washed out the oil, although the system does have a oil seperator fitted and oil return solenoid valve. I want to know your opinions of possible causes, ( remember im a non techy!!). What i can add to this is that the cold store sits within another coldstore which runs at 6 degrees. None of the stores have doors, only pvc strip curtains. Also when the units were being installed, the installer accidently charged the system with the wrong gas before reclaiming it and charging with the correct gas (404a i think instead of 407c), could this have had a detrimental effect on the system?. All opinions welcomed. I basically need to try and establish if this compressor failure is due to a equipmet fault, or a fault in installation.
Thanks in advance

[The Viking]

As you stated that you not are a "techcy", I assume you not are a fridge engineer.

There are a multitude of reasons as to why a compressor would fail. There are most likely at least 2 sight glasses on your system as well, one should look empty the other one half full.

But the investigation as to why this compressor failed will be complicated (but necessary).
You really need to get a good engineer on-board for this, if you can't trust the original installer then find a troubleshooting specialist and get him (or her, let's not be sexist here) to go through the system design and workings.

I know this wasn't the answer you hoped for but there really isn't any short cuts on this one.

[contenv]

Thanks very much for your reply, im assuming that you are refering to the sight glasses actually in the system and not neccessarily the number of sight glasses on the compressor. You are right of course but actually finding someone who can investigate and replace the compressor can be just as challenging!!. if anyone is free in the manchester area and wants lots of future installation and maintainance work the PM me!!.

[US Iceman]

...if anyone is free...


I hope you meant... is anyone available
and not... will anyone work for free.;)

All humour aside, I agree with The Viking. A new installation that suddenly goes bad this quickly has some serious issues that should be investigated in person by a good tech.

There are some good ones on the forum here so that should not be a problem.

[LRAC]

Hold on a minute here big guy, you say the installation is 2 months old, why wont the refrigeration company put it right. There has got to be more to this than meets the eye.

Could you please expand your problem:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Lrac

[Andy W]

I was going to say, it will be under manufacturers warranty. I am not a big fan of Frascolds, in fact I hate them, I have seen brand new compressors with rust inside of them, discharge pipes shearing off condensers, horrible, cheap and nasty, but that is my opinion only, I would much prefer a Prestcold scroll, touch wood (touches head) I have never had one fail, the last Frascold that I used seized up after 13 months on a cellar cooling application, like LG never again.

[Andy W]

Perhaps the design and the sizing up of the system, pipe sizes, system control and components all need looking at and I would strip the compressor to detrermine the cause of failure, if it is lack of oil it will be very evident by overheating and discolouration of internal components, could even be incorrect expansion valves fitted flushing the oil out. Do these bigger Frascolds not have oil switches, from memory I cant remember which ones have oil pumps fitted.

[monkey spanners]

I think they need an oil change after the first few hundred hours of operation. Don't remember seeing an external oil pump on the two i've fitted.
Tap shut between oil seperator and sump.(or hole not drilled in tap as i've seen before!!)

[Andy W]

I twice have seen shrader valve cores still fitted in Bristol compressor bodies where the oil return line from the sep to the comp oil glass is.

[contenv]

Yes you are right guys, it should be covered by the manufacturers warrenty but the company who i bought the units from are saying that a compressor has never failed and it is more likely down to a installation failure. Obviousley this cant be determined untill it has been fully investigated but my fridge contractors standard of work is usually very good. I now need a independant company to determine the cause of the failure.

ANY GUYS IN THE NORTH WEST INTERESTED IN INVESTIGATING THE PROBLEM AND CHANGING THE COMPRESSOR, PLEASE GET IN TOUCH, AND NO, I DONT EXPECT IT FOR FREE!, WHATEVER THE GOING RATE, I JUST WANT IT SORTED.
THANKS

[paul_h]

I twice have seen shrader valve cores still fitted in Bristol compressor bodies where the oil return line from the sep to the comp oil glass is.I've seen that on the maneurope compressor too. They have a schraeder on the crankcase and it's common to use that for oil return, twice i've seen someone connect that up without removing the schraeder core.
OP I don't think having temporarily the wrong refrigerant, liquid sluggin back or system design or anything like that caused the failure.
If it had an oil seperator, then the fault is the seperator not feeding back oil.
It could be a fault of the seperator, the solenoid valve in the return line or the connection back to the compressor.
what controlled the solenoid? that could be another thing that failed.
Unless the installer put the return line onto a schraeder core or closed valve, then it's a faulty component (seperator, solenoid, controller) that caused the fault.

[Andy W]

We are presuming that the oil seperator was precharged with oil, I think a relook at the sizing and selection of the equipment and TEV would be the starting point for me, take nothing for granted.

[Chr1s]

I would be checking how much oil is in the seperator and/or where the oil has gone.

[Renato RR]

Probably is oil separator wrong conected to compressor.

RR:(