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zolar1
21-09-2002, 06:36 AM
Well, today I went to the automotive parts store to pick up a fan belt. While chatting with one of the managers, the manager told me that a 'refrigeration guy' bought a R134a conversion kit for a walk-in cooler. I can only postulate that the 'guy' didn't have a license or proper equipment. The USEPA needs to address this problem as I'm sure the 'guy' didn't do the job properly nor affix the proper refrigerant labels. (True Story)

I cannot help but wonder if that engineer 'guy' was a member of the following organization?

Special Corporation (of) Refrigeration Engineer Wizeguys

Or S.C.R.E.W. for short?

Maybe someone could check into this practice?
?????

Zolar

WebRam
21-09-2002, 10:05 AM
Bwahahahahahahaha, very funny, thanks zoltar1 :)

superheat
23-09-2002, 04:39 PM
I know that R12 in the little cans is not dry enough for ARI standards. I would assume the same thing for 134a. I do not know about the oil. There has to be a reason car and frig uses different oil. I would say someone is going to replace a compressor soon.

Roger Goetsch
26-09-2002, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by zolar1
Well, today I went to the automotive parts store to pick up a fan belt. While chatting with one of the managers, the manager told me that a 'refrigeration guy' bought a R134a conversion kit for a walk-in cooler. I can only postulate that the 'guy' didn't have a license or proper equipment. The USEPA needs to address this problem as I'm sure the 'guy' didn't do the job properly nor affix the proper refrigerant labels. (True Story)

I cannot help but wonder if that engineer 'guy' was a member of the following organization?

Special Corporation (of) Refrigeration Engineer Wizeguys

Or S.C.R.E.W. for short?

Maybe someone could check into this practice?
?????

Zolar


Reminds me of a guy I heard about somewhere who selects compressors by locked-rotor amps!

You know, I never found out whether that guy ever became a better tech by working at improving his knowledge. I wonder.

zolar1
20-01-2003, 04:50 PM
Well, I STILL select compressors by LRA. Not because I want to, it's because I am unable to locate appropriate information as to what compressor does what.

Sure, Johnstone catalog tells me about tecumseh by looking up the number, but try looking up an Embraco compressor by the number or some of the other one's that Johnstone doesn't carry.

If I can look up a compressor, I certainly will. Otherwise, it's guess your best and go with LRA until information becomes more readily available.

Also, for everyone's information.....In the time I have been doing this method of compressor selection and usage, NOT ONE compressor failed, nor have there been any problems.

When you work 12 to 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, and help out around the house & with the new baby, it doesn't lend much time for trying to find nearly impossible information about junky-cheap compressors.

My customers $$ is what counts, and I have a family to feed.

Perhaps if you could locate charts from every compressor manufactured that tell you all the data about each one including the refrigerant used, the oil contained within, and the amount of said oil, and send them to me, I can progress more quickly than I have.

Abe
20-01-2003, 09:55 PM
This obsession about "unlicensed" people buying gas, buying do it yourself kits, etc

Frankly, I say its a free world. We dont happen to be brain surgeons where the flick of a life could mean life or death

Were fridge techs and I dont reckon we pose a threat to anyone

I remember we all start as novices, and get the bug and get hooked

There are many who start off like that, dont hark on so much about protectiveness, as these bring about cartels and monopolistic practices

In the UK, we reckon everyone has a chance to prove themselves, we do not block entry. If a guy is bad...............do you think he will maintain a job or a business??

Everyone has a right to make a living, it makes no difference if a person is old or young and "displays" an interest in refrigeration.

If he connects the pipes wrong or wires it wrong the first time................He has tried

But we in our patronising way pour scorn over them, as if we werent in the same shoes during our gestation period

Theres nothing "irresponsible" about it. They say the law is an ass, I think a lot of the legislation passed,.......... brays

And we "sheep" bleat in unision. Me, I make my own mind up about things, Im a free and independent thinker.

Im not looking over my shoulder all the time looking out for whos doing what and why, or how dare he

Me , I mind my business and encourage the growth of our industry in a positive way.

Andy
20-01-2003, 10:09 PM
Hi, Aiyub:)
some of you sentiment I agree with, some I don't.:p
We all have to learn, mistakes are a part of that I make mistakes, quite often, but the differenace is my mistakes don't injure or put others at risk, due to not knowing, I have been trained and I hold the current refrigerant handling course.
The compant that I work for is all into paperwork, some I could well do without, but at the end of it all it is for my safety and for the publics safety.
Say a novice fits a shop display unit with a remote unit and he doesnot pressure test the pipework and a joint blows out and injures some kid passing through the shop, how goes that:confused:
Better give that novice basic instruction and allow him to do his job safely.
I would be all for manditory refrigerant handling courses and proper registration, if you pass a refrigerant handling course at least you have a few of the basics under your belt.
Hope this has not caused offence, but it's just my way of looking at things.

subzero*psia
21-01-2003, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by superheat
I know that R12 in the little cans is not dry enough for ARI standards. I would assume the same thing for 134a. I do not know about the oil. There has to be a reason car and frig uses different oil. I would say someone is going to replace a compressor soon.


Actually... if a 12 ounce can is labeled as R12, it is exactly the same as a 30 pound can or 50 pound can with the same label. I have heard many technicians and design 'engineers' make comment that they are not the same refrigerant. It all comes down to the molecular structure.... R134a is R134a unless it is R134b... and yes there is. As for oil.... AKB is AKB.... sam-o, sam-o. As for the quality... if it isn't the same.... its contaminated... I don't think it is legal to sell a known contaminated or diluted chemical under the same nomer.... or resell it if recylcled to a standard lower than ARI standards. Anyway.... its just something for you to think about...

The real problem if working with cans from an automotive store is the "fitting"... you need an adaptor. ;)

zolar1
21-01-2003, 06:37 AM
Well, the point I was trying to make a bit ago was that why did I have to earn my Universal Refrigerant license and initially spend nearly $6000.00 for startup equipment, take the time to learn (pay my dues so to speak) when some Joe-Blow comes in and doesn't do anything but buy some R134a and shove it in a system without a license, and without the proper tools/training to ensure safe handling of refrigerant, etc.

I feel that if I had to go through all that, the other guy should have to too, or call me so I can do the job.

Fly-by-nighters undercut and devalue the work that we do. Who wants to compete with some hack for $6.00/hour?

It just irks me how they can get away with that............

Zolar

superheat
21-01-2003, 04:47 PM
The people who do not know what they are doing make it easier and harder on us at the same time. I had a costumer that complained about the price say the last guy only charged him $XXX. I say "The system is not working now. Call that guy back a couple more times, when you want it fixed right, call me. That will be a $75 service charge and a $50 diagnistic charge. I will credit your account will the diagnistic charge, If I do the repair."

In refrigeration, the hacks really set us apart. $50,000 worth of produce is worth more than the lowest bid.

The little cans are not meant to be used in low temp application, so the manufacturer does go to the extra expense of drying the ***** to low temp requirements. Use them if you want to, but do not tell the appliance manufacturer.

Abe
21-01-2003, 09:05 PM
Lets get things in perspective. Any engineer worth his salt should aspire to higher things, education and qualifications, technical expertise and adherence to the highest standards. This is reflected in the quality of his/hers work and ultimately his self worth and demand.

Safety regulations, standards, work practice laws , health and safety regulations are designed to promote well being, safety and protection for self, public and environment at large.

No one is saying that these should not be in place. Members at large are highly skilled, trained through self determination and hard work to promote themselves and rise in seniority

So I can imagine what it feels like to be usurped or lose a job because some upstart pretender without the necessary skills or qualification comes into play and steals the thunder from under your feet.

But "who" calls upon these services ??? of cowboy operator. It is mister end user or customer. He dictates who does the job and at what price he is prepared to pay. He sanctions the services of the cowboy or he may feel that he can do the job himself.

So , you can moan and gripe all you like. This is the reality of the situation. So you say, Lets "police" the situation, to protect "your" self interest. We live in an age where the police themselves are failing to nail and jail the real criminals , and you want someone prosecuted because they bought a can of gas???? Ha haaaaaa

They will "always" be elements within society who work at different levels, Did the prohibition laws stop the consumption of liquor?? Did the illegality of drugs stop people smoking hash.? Do "you" pay all your taxes, every last drop? Have you never in all honesty never cheated on your expenses or never knowingly overcharged a customer???

So lets stop being prudish and call foul because some one bought an air conditioner and decided to fit it himself and didnt let you poor engineer do the job for him.

because it smacks of envy and selfishness. Let your quality of work shine through, in your skill , in your persona. You will be recognised for what you are and you will progress.

Thats what I am stressing here, not that I want to see a falling away of barriers. Constructive, well thought of ideas..............Yes.
Pettiness.....................No

Brian
17-02-2003, 12:58 AM
what goes around , comes around......fear not!

zolar1
17-02-2003, 05:18 AM
FOR SALE! FOR SALE!

Anyone can become a BRAIN SURGEON!

Just go to your local supply house and buy the bare minimum of tools needed.

No license or training needed.

No experience necessary.

No malpractice (liability) insurance bills.

Work with impunity!

If anyone has a problem, then just tell them you are just a 'novice' and not responsible due to your ignorance. (you won't have to worry about anything. You can even keep on as 'business as usual'.


Now who would want to put their life in that person's hands?
Each time some hack does what I mentioned in my first post, it's almost the same as the above. They put people's lives in jeopardy by performing unsupervised work, being improperly (or not at all) trained, and potentially destroying the environment.


Does it take a little kid to get 'accidentally' killed for reforms to be made? Or MORE government legislation & controls forced upon the rest of us?

It's all a money thing, right?

I happen to care...

superheat
17-02-2003, 04:16 PM
Face it we live in a Walmart world. Most people are willing to say "They don't make them like they used to" then turn right around and buy the cheapest product they can get. In a world where the best products go out of business, because of lack in sales, Cheap imports are everyplace. You can't blame a guy for trying to save a couple of bucks with this economy. How can you blame somebody for giving that guy what he wants?
Look at this scenario. I go to your store and tell you what is wrong with your system and what it takes to fix it. YOU HAVE BEEN INFORMED. You hire some no-account to "fix" it for half my price. A few months later your baby gets hurt sweeping out behind the reach-in boxes. That little girl is not to blame, but somebody needs to be sued. The court finds fault with the guy that presented himself as a professional and did an inadequit job.

I find fault with the man that knew he was getting an inadequit job, but he wanted to save a few dollars.

Abe
17-02-2003, 07:22 PM
(FOR SALE! FOR SALE!)

(Anyone can become a BRAIN SURGEON!)

Calm down Zolar.............
No..........you cannot become a brain surgeon !!
Dont delude yourself.............

As Superheat rightly puts it...........This is a Wallmart World
As I said earlier..........put things in perspective.......and dont bust a gut

Some months back Im asked to put in air conditioners , customer goes out and buys units from a national wholesaler. They shouldnt but they did.

Yes, it bothered me, did I cry foul ?? No, because I know how things work in the world.

So lets not get emotive and pretend kids are being killed.......its not as bad as that

Overall, on balance the bulk of work is carried out by competent souls like you and I.

You say you care, let me remind you that you are not alone.

pssss...............Ever thought of becoming a copper??

abcdefg1675
11-04-2003, 07:20 PM
i disagree... This generation is more of a throw-away world. Its cheaper to buy a new airconditioner and throw out your old one than to get it repaired. Ive taked to many people who have bought wall-mart fallapart 200$ airconditioners. Most say they run fine for something like 1/2 hours straight then the motor shuts off. Its not the thermostat that shuts them off, but its the thermal breaker in the compresser unit. seems the evaporators turn into one giant ice cube. Whoever built those airconditioners should be slapped for not including a thermostat infront of the evaporator...

also the same for other things. Repair shops charge people 30-100$ just to look at something that you have broken. Well, hell with that. Toss that tv out and lets go and buy something at wallmart for 100$, which they have slapped together quick as possible and hope to god that the tv is still glued together and doesnt come apart till after the 90 day warrenty.

frank
11-04-2003, 09:00 PM
Why do you think that these people charge $90 an hour?

It's because they have the skills that others don't through training. You only get what you pay for.

I've had to pay for my training - if it's not been in cash then it's been in time and effort and so I'm in the market to sell my skills. You can only get so far in this world by faking it - you soon get found out and dumped.

What's the old saying - Knowledge is POWER.

WebRam
12-04-2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by abcdefg1675
i disagree... Repair shops charge people 30-100$ just to look at something that you have broken. Well, hell with that. Toss that tv out and lets go and buy something at wallmart for 100$, which they have slapped together quick as possible and hope to god that the tv is still glued together and doesnt come apart till after the 90 day warrenty.

Way to look after the world dude :mad:

bernie
13-04-2003, 03:51 AM
Ever since GOD flooded the earth, we haven't any sure fire ways to control the population of the world.
When folks do things they have no business doing, Bad things happen. This while tragic, is population control for stupid people.
If we didn't let dummies do things they shouldn't and end up killing themselves, we'd have generations of stupid people. Then GOD would have to flood the earth again and we would all be gonners.
I say let the untrained, save a dollar do it yourselfers do as they please, for all our sake.
Have a nice day
Bernie

Robearbam
13-05-2003, 03:40 PM
Geez...I'm frantically going over my refrig chart! According to this "Genetron", "Forane" and "Klea" are applicable to - Commercial refrig, Appliances, Chillers and Automotive A/C; new and retrofit. They also use the same POE Lube. Am I missing something here? Different oil....auto and chiller? I always use the 30's on everything. :confused:

DaBit
14-05-2003, 11:07 AM
Commercial BBQ grade propane is used widely as a refrigerant amongst overclockers and car A/C DIY-ers. It works, if your dryer is up to the job. The same would be true for moist R134a in most applications.

About the screaming and yelling here: I am not licensed, I like to build my own stuff, and if somebody gets harmed, it will be me. I refuse to recharge somebody elses car A/C, though I think I am capable of doing so.

So, what's wrong with my hobby? A few grams of refrigerant leaking into the air (I usually recover and reuse most of it, but some stays behind in the pipes)? Come on, I get my refrigerant from airhorn-canisters. When blowing the horn, a large plume of gas enters the atmosphere. Now what about that?

I have seriously considered to obtain a STEK (dutch) license, but after all it costs too much, and even if I have one, I am still not allowed to buy and use refrigerant and parts without working for a company having the appropriate license.

If they make it that hard, they are asking for it.

Coolie
16-10-2004, 04:19 PM
Were fridge techs and I don't reckon we pose a threat to anyone


On the contrary, dear watson. As fridge techs, or engineers, we pose a great risk, ie. if we don't know what we're doing!
Have you forgotten the explosion in Stevenage?
I suspect that the person who sadly died in that accident was correctly trained, but in a moment of complacency (and we all get too complacent at times) made a fatal error resulting in what happened!
But even looking past the accident factor, have you forgotten about the ODP of most refrigerants? If some ignorant person comes along and wants to move his ac unit, cuts the pipes which results in all the gas escaping, never mind the possibility of injuring himself, he has just added to the greenhouse effect. This effects everybody on the planet.


Luckily this does not happen very often, now imagine if you had every joe soap trying his hand, unsupervised, at our game!
As you very well know, there are loads of laws and regulations that govern us. It's just unfortunate that they are not regulated a little stricter.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for learning and bettering oneself,( I am in the middle of studying an HNC in refrigeration.) but if somebody really wants to learn, then he should do it through the correct channels and not be a cowboy. That is how our trade gets its bad name!!!

zolar1
17-10-2004, 03:34 AM
Here in Cincinnati, Ohio (USA), MOST if not all of the 'scrappers' and Home Warranty Repairmen just cut lines and 'let it go'.
I have contacted the US EPA, but it seems my notices have gone unanswered. I even gave names, dates, times, and places of the offenders and what they did.

Sure, R22 isn't as bad as some refrigerants, but it all adds up. And there is absolutely NO requirement or licensing for the DIY'ers to obtain R134a nor is there ANY requirement for them to recover used R134a.

According to the Montreal Pact, it specifically states that all refrigerant handlers be licensed and all refrigerants are to be recovered.

The US signed that agreement, but it seems that this is one part that is largely ignored.

Can someone please explain how this can be?

R134a does have an ODP number, and therefore contributes to the greenhouse effect.

Regarding Coolie, he is considered small fry in that he only uses very small quantities. I personally would go after the flagrant violations that the scrappers here commit, and leave the small fry alone.

Also, all the used appliances dealers here in Cincinnati just cut lines and let the refrigerant escape into the atmosphere, except one - one of them I use my recovery machine so they are in compliance.

Gary
17-10-2004, 02:34 PM
Back before all of the environmental BS, regulations, licensing, etc., the pros prospered and the DIYers and hacks were good for the service side of the industry, screwing things up thus generating lots of extra work for the people who knew what they were doing.

The only thing that has changed is the government has gotten richer and more intrusive, taxing, regulating, and licensing everything that moves.

Now if I could just get the government to make my books mandatory. Hmmmmmm... Postulate a theory of doom and gloom in the distant future... Get Hollywood to make a few scorched Earth movies... Contribute to both parties... Show the politicians how this can be taxed outrageously... Hmmmmmm...

Coolie
20-10-2004, 06:59 AM
Regarding Coolie, he is considered small fry in that he only uses very small quantities
What I was implying was: That as refrigeration/ aircon engineer we pose a great risk........and whatever else I said. I was only using the words of Aiyub.
So for the record I'd just like to state that I am not small fry and I would go after every violation as it all adds up.

Maybe you should wonder why The USA refused to sign the Kyoto Protocol. Go
here (http://www.globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/Kyoto.asp) to have a read up on it.
Now, I am not sure if America has since signed on but it still make for interesting debate as to why they were so reluctant to do so initially.

Coolie
20-10-2004, 05:09 PM
Follow the link to visist the official Kyoto Protocol (http://unfccc.int/cop3/) website.

zolar1
21-10-2004, 02:31 AM
Please forgive me if I offended anyone.

Coolie
21-10-2004, 05:05 PM
Please forgive me if I offended anyone.

Don't worry my friend, no offence was taken! :D

Abe
21-10-2004, 07:16 PM
On the contrary, dear watson. As fridge techs, or engineers, we pose a great risk, ie. if we don't know what we're doing!
Have you forgotten the explosion in Stevenage?

Coolie

I see my name being " bandied" around so Ill sit up and take notice

Now Coolie or dear watson.........????? :eek:

I said..............were fridge techs................not DIY'ers, cowboys, give it a go Fred, newbies, students, or whatever else

By fridge tech, I assume youre time served, qualified with relevant licensing and certifications.......

If you are...........then you pose little threat, because you know what you doing and comply with Health and Safety regs, Montreal Protocol, Kyoto, ( unless youre American, in the case of Kyoto) and whatever other treaties/ laws, are in place

By the way...........I wish you well with your studies, welcome to the industry

Coolie
21-10-2004, 10:22 PM
Coolie

I see my name being " bandied" around so Ill sit up and take notice

Now Coolie or dear watson.........????? :eek:
I hope I did not offend you as that is not what I was trying to achieve, I was just trying to get my point across!


By fridge tech, I assume youre time served, qualified with relevant licensing and certifications....... Yes I am


By the way...........I wish you well with your studies, welcome to the industry
Thank you.

Peter_1
24-10-2004, 07:40 AM
Maybe you should wonder why The USA refused to sign the Kyoto Protocol. Go
here (http://www.globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/Kyoto.asp) to have a read up on it.


Some interesting extracts/quotes of the article but why tyhey not signed is already long known an very, very simple and proved again by this article: money, money and own profits.

The US, on the other hand, contributes to one-fourth of the world's total greenhouse gas emissions. The total carbon dioxide emissions from one US citizen in 1996 were 19 times the emissions of one Indian. US emissions in total are still more than double those from China.

Furthermore, the U.S. for over 20 to 25 percent of the world's carbon dioxide emissions, for just 4 to 5 percent of the world's population.

This amounts to demanding a freeze on global inequity, where rich countries stay rich, and poor countries stay poor, since carbon dioxide emissions are closely linked to GDP growth.

Business interests, as mentioned above have constantly resulted in strong lobbying in Washington, as well. Bush's announcement resulted in almost world-wide condemnation and many pointed to Bush's controversial election which included backing and contribution of millions of dollars by the oil industry, as factors in this decision.

...all members of the European Union have already signed.

USA is the most powerful and influential country in the world (and incidentally, the worst polluter).

a group of large businesses concerned at their bottom line if the Kyoto Protocol was signed), making it harder for Washington to sign.

The Global Climate Coalition has recently seen some of its prominent members drop out, such as Shell and BP, ....Ford, Dupont, Daimler Chrysler, Texaco, General Motors....
Abandonment of the Global Climate Coalition by leading companies is partly in response to the mounting evidence that the world is indeed getting warmer. The 15 warmest years in the last century have occurred since 1980. Ice is melting on every continent. The snow/ice pack in the Rockies, the Andes, the Alps, and the Himalayas is shrinking. The volume of the ice cap covering the Arctic Ocean has shrunk by more than 40 percent over the last 35 years. To deny that Earth is getting warmer in the face of such compelling evidence is to risk a loss of credibility, something that corporations cannot readily afford."

Gary
24-10-2004, 01:17 PM
The world has been getting warmer and colder since the beginning of time. People deal with it. They always have. Only recently have the would-be global dictators used this as an excuse to take our money and micro-manage our lives.

dill
25-10-2004, 09:01 PM
just a thought, there have been at least three ice ages and the last one had ice over a mile thick in my locality. before that it was a desert creating dunes hundreds of feet high. did the cave men have fridges then ? dill.

herefishy
27-10-2004, 02:29 AM
The US ...contributes to one-fourth of the world's total greenhouse gas emissions. The total carbon dioxide emissions from one US citizen in 1996 were 19 times the emissions of one Indian. US emissions in total are still more than double those from China.

Furthermore, the U.S. for over 20 to 25 percent of the world's carbon dioxide emissions, for just 4 to 5 percent of the world's population.

I suppose that the analysis of the consumption of legumes by the third world is not considered in the data regarding green house gasses.

If the earth-warming gasses weren't produced by the life forms and geological processes of nature (ahem, 'evil humans' are an integral part of the nature in which they exist), I guess then everyone would be complaining of the oncoming ice age!

heehee :p

frank
27-10-2004, 08:15 PM
Hi Fish

Nice to see you back - everything OK? :)

master rinktec
20-12-2004, 12:56 AM
I agree with what Aiyub has said. This is dangerous thinking. Here in the US it can be seen exibited by the Unions. They would have it that jobs be labeled Union only, with Non-Union contractors unable to even bid on the projects. The bottom line is every one pays taxes, and at the end of the day we are all just a bunch of guys trying to make a living. If an entity is "fly-by-night" and doesen't take care of the issues caused by their own service, they will not be in business for long. Only reputable companys remain. Reputation goes a long way, word does get around. If someone is running around and doing "hack" work, what should be done is to regroup and address the situation. Make your customers want to pay for, and appreciate the quality service that you provide. I have found that at the end of the day, when the **** hits the fan, they know who to call. The guy that can get it done and has access to the right parts.

Abe
20-12-2004, 07:05 PM
The world has been getting warmer and colder since the beginning of time. People deal with it. They always have. Only recently have the would-be global dictators used this as an excuse to take our money and micro-manage our lives.


Gary,

We " puny" human beings cause only a dent in the scheme of things.......The world or nature is far bigger then all of us......

And yes, as you say, the big shepherds with their collies.........do a grand job herding the flock into pens.........

its called.............The New World Order........

Abe
20-12-2004, 07:13 PM
What I was implying was: That as refrigeration/ aircon engineer we pose a great risk........and whatever else I said. I was only using the words of Aiyub.


I know this posting is as old as dry toast.............but what the heck.....

I tell you Coolie who poses a great risk, or were posing a risk........it was industrial polluters..........guys who vented the stuff sky high.

So, a fellow tech gets killed in Stevenage...........May his soul rest in peace................that is one death.........I know, one death too many.......

But in context, lets not go crack acorns with sledgehammers......

I maintain still that we guys pose little threat..........
Dont let " them" fool you

zolar1
21-12-2004, 02:22 AM
Old 26-09-2002
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Default Re: A refrigeration engineer idiot?
Quote:



Originally posted by zolar1
Well, today I went to the automotive parts store to pick up a fan belt. While chatting with one of the managers, the manager told me that a 'refrigeration guy' bought a R134a conversion kit for a walk-in cooler. I can only postulate that the 'guy' didn't have a license or proper equipment. The USEPA needs to address this problem as I'm sure the 'guy' didn't do the job properly nor affix the proper refrigerant labels. (True Story)

I cannot help but wonder if that engineer 'guy' was a member of the following organization?

Special Corporation (of) Refrigeration Engineer Wizeguys

Or S.C.R.E.W. for short?

Maybe someone could check into this practice?
?????

Zolar



(Roger's reply)

Reminds me of a guy I heard about somewhere who selects compressors by locked-rotor amps!

You know, I never found out whether that guy ever became a better tech by working at improving his knowledge. I wonder.


Update: (Zolar)

I STILL have to select compressors based on Locked Rotor Amps. ;)

Reason being:
The parts house wants to know LRA, refrigerant type, voltage, and temperature.

An example: A 1/4 HP compressor (LRA approx 28 or so) can be replaced by a 1/3 HP compressor (LRA approx 35 or so).

And yes, I have come a long way. But nothing short of Herefishy's superb knowledge and talent is my goal. (is it getting too deep my friend? LOL)

Right now, I have to wet my thumb, stick it in a cooler, and add ***** till my thumb gets cold, then stop..... :confused: ? :rolleyes:

I used to stick my tongue on a shelf to see if the cooler was cold, but I sorta got it stuck once or twice. (I still talk kinda funny since then...not exactly sure why though......... :eek: )

And there was the time when I 'accidentally' hooked up a compressor backwards. The cooler quickly became a foodwarmer. At the time, I couldn't understand why the shop owner was mad.....he didn't have a food warmer and could have used one? :o

Merry Christmas!
:)

Mark C
21-12-2004, 11:42 PM
Well, well, well...who we have here after more than 7 months.
Slept well??µ

You don't have a clue what direction this thread went in the past and all the deleted posts that has taken place.

Go play with you Matchbox cars.

Oh, I've been here. In fact, I read three times or more here per day. What I've seen is that you are a complete and total Euro-centric boob whose whole mission in life is to denigrate others who do not see with your myopic view. (Just like your comment on one of my hobbies. I'm glad you took the time to learn about me enough to be able to denigrate me some more.) I just chose not to sink to your level. I have much to offer here, but because of you and another fool, I chose not to participate. I care not a whit for you, or any place that loads your cannon.

Oh, almost forgot my comment... Carbon Dioxide is not "pollution". It has been around in quantity long before we were ever walking this Earth. Granted, it is a product of combustion.

Mark C
22-12-2004, 01:22 AM
No. Not going to do so. ...Not even to stand next to you. :D

PobodysNerfect
22-12-2004, 02:02 AM
[QUOTE=Mark C]What I've seen is that you are a complete and total Euro-centric boob whose whole mission in life is to denigrate others who do not see with your myopic view./QUOTE]


Now, I think, it’s time to take a deep breath. This is getting ridiculous.

For some time now, we have seen frequent slur or denigrating remarks about Americans. A recent example being Aiyub – in an apparent attempt to get the sympathy on his side – calling RogGoetsch “a typical american……….”.

So what wrong with “a typical american…..”. Nothing much maybe, if it wasn’t because it is obvious that the remark plays up to an anti American sentiment, which has crept into some post lately.

And now this, surely there was bound to come a reaction. And this will not stop here, even though it should. There is nothing to be gained by generalizing people, allowing nationalism to come before reasoning.

This site deserve better.

Saludos,

Jan Steen

zolar1
22-12-2004, 02:31 AM
<Scratches head>

Did I miss something? :confused:


When I started this thread, it was in part about something on my mind, but put here in a humorous context.

Surely someone has a sense of humor?


I dunno...

PS if the reference by Peter was directed towards me regarding not posting in 7 months, please accept my apologies for my tardiness :o . I work 7 days a week, 10 to 16 hour days most of the time.

Peter_1
22-12-2004, 07:56 AM
Zolar, as you can see, I quoted Mark C, our so-called ammonia guy.
He’s pissed on me because I disagreed with him – long time ago – with something technically. His reply then was very personally and had nothing to see anymore with the matter of the case. He apparently can’t withstand any critics from nobody. We have seen this several times in this forum.

Hey, Zolar1, don’t work so hard, I did it in the past and it’s not good for your health, even if you don’t feel anything. And I can know it. Take also time for those at home.

Jan, who started this childish behaviour again in this thread? Who calls me a Euro-boob –not that I care anyway – without any reason?

Is this the meaning of Christmas for you Mark C? You must be very pitiful, especially if you find the time to read 3 times the forum.

Abe
22-12-2004, 08:19 AM
For some time now, we have seen frequent slur or denigrating remarks about Americans. A recent example being Aiyub – in an apparent attempt to get the sympathy on his side – calling RogGoetsch “a typical american……….”.


I said TYPICAL, do you comprehend that word ???

I did not say you ruthless conniving beast or slanderer or creep or something even worse !!!

So whats the big deal ????? Being so sensitive????
Just like we have traits in one we have traits in another species............That is no slur.........

But, you take it as if it is a personal criricism..........

This is a healthy honest freindly forum.................We come here , jibe each other, we exchange, we learn..............That is the nature of life......

I guess you conveniently forgot to mention Rog Gosh............Or whatever his name is, issuing his threat.............Watch it , you know what were capable of..............

Period................

And to Marc C.....................If you dont like it here, dont trade insults.............Go find your own piece of Nirvana somewhere else................

WebRam
22-12-2004, 10:47 AM
OK, I might have been remiss in my duties on this thread but work has been hell of late. (Man I hope that comment never upset any religious types)

Lets all remember one thing.

This site is a Site of Refrigeration Engineers based around the WORLD.

As such, I will always expect that there will be some sayings and comments made that, are not meant to be insulting. What I ask everyone to remember is that when people talk face to face there can be misunderstandings. So imagine what its like when someone is thumping on a keyboard. We will always get misunderstandings.

As you are all grown up professionals, can I ask that you all remember this and act in that way.

I have only ever had to remove one member from this community since its inception and I think that’s a testament to the quality of posters that we have here from around the world.

I also don’t make a habit of addressing the forum in this way so please forgive me for doing so. I have had a few complaints and I felt it was time to try and steer this thread back to its original topic.

So in closing, lets just remember that you are addressing the world when you post and the world is a big place. :D

Mark C
22-12-2004, 12:58 PM
Thank you WebRam.

Point of note. I'm not "pissed" with you at all, Peter 1, I just tire of the political diatribes on a professional site. Although you may hold whatever opinion you desire, it does not show well here. This hijacked thread is a perfect example. Peter, you continue to denigrate with your comments, and it certainly is not nice, or professional at all. You know not of me at all, except what you read, and I am certainly not insecure enough to do anything but laugh at your insults. The brush you paint with is more of a smear.

I certainly choose to not post here as a result of your (and Marc's) attacks on me and other USAmericans. I daresay that this is your goal. Yes, you chased me away. I do not care to help you solve any of your problems, explore solutions, share with you information or answer your questions. The book I said I would send you months ago I replaced onto the shelf. I just would rather find myself a more constructive way of sharing professionally. The attitudes expressed here, and these attacks, keep this site from attracting a whole group of professionals whom you denigrate. Why? Because of your politics. This is a professional site, it is not about you, Peter. You are not my friend.

Roger Goetsch is a very old friend and co-worker of mine. We also have the same University Bachelor of Science degree in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning, as we went to the same college. (He might say our degree is in Air Conditioning and Refrigeration, but I digress!) Although we travelled in different directions, he is a good guy and knowledgable in his field.

Aiyub, your "typical American" comment was indeed an insult, and I fear you meant it. We are not beasts, yet it is assumed that we want nothing more to rape and pillage the environment. It is not the case, as your media obviously represents. However, I think that the typical USAmerican feels more for our environment than you think or possibly know. I did not "trade" any insults, I merely stated my feelings and got further denigrated. **Shrugs** You will not see me post anything here to share with this poisonous attitude displayed. I will, however, read this site several times per day and continue my education in this field.

Indeed, Merry Christmas.

Mark C
22-12-2004, 01:07 PM
Killjoy !!

LOL... Yeah Marc. I don't need any more stress in my life. Merry Christmas!

WebRam
22-12-2004, 01:08 PM
Mark C

I meant my post to be a full stop to this and a return to the original thread.

Any more coments by anyone on this thread not relating to the subject will be deleted.

If you wish to continue with personal attacks and include you in this Mark C then can I suggest that you use the PM system or if required we can always set up a dual at dawn if you so prefer.

So, full stop and return to the topic.

Mark C
22-12-2004, 01:25 PM
Well, today I went to the automotive parts store to pick up a fan belt. While chatting with one of the managers, the manager told me that a 'refrigeration guy' bought a R134a conversion kit for a walk-in cooler. I can only postulate that the 'guy' didn't have a license or proper equipment. The USEPA needs to address this problem as I'm sure the 'guy' didn't do the job properly nor affix the proper refrigerant labels. (True Story)

I cannot help but wonder if that engineer 'guy' was a member of the following organization?

Special Corporation (of) Refrigeration Engineer Wizeguys

Or S.C.R.E.W. for short?

Maybe someone could check into this practice?
?????

Zolar

Point taken, WebRam.... It is dawn here in The Eastern USA, and I don't have time today!

Zolar- I'd say this person was actually a secret agent for the organization known as "REPLACE"! That would be the folks that specialize in doing things that damage equipement and endanger those around them. Although I wish I could come up with a snazzy name for the acronym, I cannot. It is so super-secret and so widespread an organization, it defies logic and any attempts to teach them otherwise! However, there is an active cell in Georgia and they are widely regarded as the legitemate contractor's source of work in some instances, cleaning up the messes they leave behind.

zolar1
23-12-2004, 02:23 AM
Whew! I was a bit worried there.

Since the wife doesn't work, and neither does my son (he's a scant 2 years old - lol), I am the sole provider for my family.

Surely, I would rather put in 8 hours x 5 days a week, but with the economy being so bad nowadays, I'm stuck.

I figure I'll be doing this pace for another 10 years or so . . . sigh.

I thought about panhandling like Homer Simpson did in one of the shows I watched a while back, but not sure if I can get anything. Too many panhandlers out there as it is - lol.

Now, back to the topic:

I am still dealing with people (now shop owners, usually 3rd world immigrants for some unknown reason) who try to fix things themselves, like they used to 'back home'. Others have told me that they have been doing this for many years before licensing requirements were enacted and knew 'a friend' who could get them their refrigerant of choice without any problems.

And of course, they wind up paying me to come back and fix it right (usually compressor jobs due to overcharging or wrong refrigerant used).

I'll think of an acronym for 'replace' sooner or later. Been shoveling over 7,000 square feet of driveway/sidewalks today - and more one the way...sheesh...

Does anyone know if the Kyoto Protocol will help deter these people?

zolar1
23-12-2004, 02:39 AM
I just thought of something.

I assume that the shop owners don't like being charged such high prices for repairs.

But they don't realize that the technicians who properly perform the repairs have spent a lot of time and money to learn how to do things the right way as well as having the proper equipment.

It's a lot of responsibility on our part.

I guess they're trading quality & responsibility for money?

Maybe 'back yard' mechanics have their place in the world, but considering what's at stake with the environment, we're not charging enough?

zolar1
23-12-2004, 02:56 AM
OK, I got the ACRONYM for everyone.

One that is descriptive of all those 'hack' technicians out there...

Replacement
Engineering
People
Lacking (an)
Adequate
Certification (of)
Education

I suppose this would describe the 'guy' I mentioned when I first started this thread?

Mark C
23-12-2004, 05:05 AM
OK, I got the ACRONYM for everyone.

One that is descriptive of all those 'hack' technicians out there...

Replacement
Engineering
People
Lacking (an)
Adequate
Certification (of)
Education

I suppose this would describe the 'guy' I mentioned when I first started this thread?

dang... You're GOOD! :D

Abe
23-12-2004, 09:22 AM
Since the wife doesn't work, and neither does my son (he's a scant 2 years old - lol), I am the sole provider for my family.


Heyy Zolar,

2 years old already..............Wow, seems like yesterday, I still remember the excitement in your postings just before he was born......... How time flies!!

zolar1
24-12-2004, 12:10 AM
(trying not to digress from the original topic here)

Excitement is still there. I love seeing the wide-eyed wonder in his eyes when looking at everything. He's trying to sneak under the Christmas tree to see what's there - and he puts a big smile on my face everytime. And he LOVES going outside - lol. (Wait till he has to drive to work in the weather...he won't like it soon enough...he he)

I wish I could earn enough money to take my son to Europe. Maybe see some of the good places. But the economy is still bad, and that secret organization known as R.E.P.L.A.C.E. makes it hard for me to earn a living. Many of the shop owners get rather gun-shy when hiring people lately.


I was wondering: Any other people like/dislike the ACRONYM I came up with?

shogun7
24-12-2004, 01:31 AM
Well, the point I was trying to make a bit ago was that why did I have to earn my Universal Refrigerant license and initially spend nearly $6000.00 for startup equipment, take the time to learn (pay my dues so to speak) when some Joe-Blow comes in and doesn't do anything but buy some R134a and shove it in a system without a license, and without the proper tools/training to ensure safe handling of refrigerant, etc.

I feel that if I had to go through all that, the other guy should have to too, or call me so I can do the job.

Fly-by-nighters undercut and devalue the work that we do. Who wants to compete with some hack for $6.00/hour?

It just irks me how they can get away with that............

Zolar
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change:To change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference! :)

Gary
24-12-2004, 02:43 AM
OK, I got the ACRONYM for everyone.

One that is descriptive of all those 'hack' technicians out there...

Replacement
Engineering
People
Lacking (an)
Adequate
Certification (of)
Education

I suppose this would describe the 'guy' I mentioned when I first started this thread?

Hmmmmm... How about AC = Analytical Comprehension

Replacement
Engineering
People
Lacking
Analytical
Comprehension
Education