Air condition compressor

[mmtronic]

Dear All ,

kindly i would ask if there is A/C compressor work with 12 volt , and also if any one heared about electric automotive A/C compressor ( work on 12 volt car battary ) not work by engin rotation by belt .


thx so much

[Brian_UK]

Hi, try this link to the Danfoss BDF DC compressor range.

http://www.danfoss.com/Products/Categories/Categories.htm?segment=RA&category=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ra.danfoss.com%2fra%2fProducts%2fProductCatalogue.asp%3fNavigation%3dHideO nAllPages%26Footer%3dHideonallpages%26Division%3dCC%26HL%3d1%26TopViewItem%3d74%26AppID%3d%7bc2a95da c-5e01-47df-92cd-5972d837cf1a%7d%26dyn_lang%3d

[mmtronic]

Dear Brain ,

i checked the web sit and i know that there is refrigerator compressors ( not A/C compressors ) work on 12 volt DC such as BD50F , BD150F Danfoss with aid of power converter and this compressors less than 1 HP

[old gas bottle]

take to much current,A/C comps start at about 1 HP, you would need a battery bank as big as a car to run it for any time at all,even the 12v fridge ones soon flaten a battery allthough there better than they were, nearest i would think you could get is running one with a genny,but then it may as well be 110 or 240v.

[Brian_UK]

I should ask..... why do you want a 12vdc aircon compressor?

[Karl Hofmann]

Check out the Sanden and Denso web sites, I think that they both produce electrically operated automotive ac compressors for hybrid and electric cars

[mmtronic]

Dear Brain
why 12v DC A/C compressor ? ....ok , i want to design and making an A/C system ( have high efficiency ) for the car which non supported with A/C system and avoid loading the A/C compressor on car motor ....that is why i also ask about the Automotive electrical A/C compressor in my first inquiry in this thread .....this electrical Automotive A/C compressor already produced by Denso corp. for hypride cars but i did not find it in my country tell now ( check denso products site ) so i want a replacment that is why i asked for 12 v A/C compressor

thx

[Brian_UK]

OK, thanks, I understand now.:)

[The MG Pony]

big 12Volt DC motor, average automotive A/C compressor, shove the two togeather. Congrats you got a 12 volt A/C compressor!

the only real differance in the belt driven unit is there is a belt! to reduce power needed to run find ways to make the condencer bigger!

[mmtronic]

i think the problem still present as hard to find 12v DC A/C Compressor as to find power 12v DC motor tolerat driving the A/C clutch but i will try to think in use 12V DC to 110 or 220 AC converter

[mmtronic]

i think the idea of fixing motor to the A/C compressor will be as follow

but the question is .....is the motor will give the A/C compressr the suitable RPM to give acceptable cooling

[mohamed khamis]

i think the idea of fixing motor to the A/C compressor will be as follow

but the question is .....is the motor will give the A/C compressr the suitable RPM to give acceptable cooling

Dear Mohamed

It is so difficult to find out a compressor driven by 12 DC V and if u find it. The required electrical current at least will be over 200 Amp. If u want to install electrical compressor in small vehicles the battery can not cope this because its normal capacity 200 Amph (if i am not mistaken) i.e the discharge rate of it will be very fast then the generator has to charge it shortly. So what u will gain from getting the engine relieves from compressor burden u will loss it by frequent coupling of the generator. in addition ur compressor will be at least 2 HP because the cooling load calculation for the automotive system is totally different than the residential. in these systems u have a high relative air velocity (boosting the heat transfer) and sun load is very big due to the huge glazing area. In addition, u have to use a high voltage compressor to overcome the initial torque during compressor starting and 12 DCV has not this talent. U r idea is being used only in hybrid cars with 220 V and railroad vehicles ....check Hitachi website.
I wish it could help

kind regards:)

[mmtronic]

Dear Mohamed

first ....if we talk about A/C compressor driven by electrical motor as the atached pic show , the normal A/C compressor for cars will be 1 hp for mid cars ( check the specifications of some auto A/C compressor ) i am not need to install 2 HP ( specially my car is small ) , the problem will be to fiend the electrical motor drive this compressor and it can be 110 v or 220 v ( powered by 12v to 110v or 220v converter )but the amps will be the problem becouse the car Batt give max from 55 to 70 amps in normal mid cars so i will need a special electrical motor

secound ....the electrical Auto compressor which produced by Denso and sanden ...i am not sur that is work on 220v and if so it can by powerd by 12v to 220 v converter

[The MG Pony]

you can reduce the needed drive power by improvign your condencing area as most auto motive condencers seem to be under sized for a given compressor driving up the HP needed to drive the compressor.

Secondly DC motors have full torque the second power is given to them and can spin very fast, thus you can use pullies to give further machanical advantage. Using an inverter driven system can indeed work as well.

[Brian_UK]

I suppose that you could take it one stage further and install a 230v alternator in the car and take your power from that.

[mohamed khamis]

Dear Mohamed

first ....if we talk about A/C compressor driven by electrical motor as the atached pic show , the normal A/C compressor for cars will be 1 hp for mid cars ( check the specifications of some auto A/C compressor ) i am not need to install 2 HP ( specially my car is small ) , the problem will be to fiend the electrical motor drive this compressor and it can be 110 v or 220 v ( powered by 12v to 110v or 220v converter )but the amps will be the problem becouse the car Batt give max from 55 to 70 amps in normal mid cars so i will need a special electrical motor

secound ....the electrical Auto compressor which produced by Denso and sanden ...i am not sur that is work on 220v and if so it can by powerd by 12v to 220 v converter

Dear Mohamed :)

Firstly...I have checked many websites to find out the auto AC compressor capacity but i did not find any information about that..could u send me a reference for that. Secondly The battery is usually defined by its energy stored capacity (amph = amper *hour) i.e 200 amph can give for example 10 amp for 20 hours and i think ur car battery is very small than that. therefore u can not judge the battery will give 55 to 70 amps without assigning a certain discharge duration. thus, when i mentioned to u in the last post that ur battery will be discharged in a short time and the generator has to fill up it again. thirdly, the using of step-up converter will raise up to u the voltage on expense of the decreasing in the electrical current (the power is constant). so what u gain by right hand is lost by left one. Lastly...the electrical sanden compressor is 320 V with power input operating in the range of 1.25 HP to 2.5 HP and this is normal auto compressor capacity in the car as i got from American M.sc thesis.

Kind regards

Mohamed khamis

[Elliza]

dear all,
does anyone know spesification from compressor R-12 with model FN77Q13G 1Ph, 220v, 50Hz? coz i really needed for my research, please help me
thanks

[Brian_UK]

Hi Elliza, try here for details on the FN77 compressor

http://sporlan.en.alibaba.com/product/50102945/50460957/Compressors/Compressor.html

[Elliza]

hi brian
i need some help to found the literature about oil-separator for R-12? coz i have some trouble with the system on my compressor right know, i just want to know how thats stuff working, thx for your attention and the answers. i'm sorry my english is so bad

[Electrocoolman]

A point worth remembering.....
The energy for the compressor still has to be supplied from whatever source selected. Each unecessary 'stage' increases system losses....ie. it is more efficient to drive directly from the car engine than to drive from the engine>alternator>battery>electric motor.

[mohamed khamis]

A point worth remembering.....
The energy for the compressor still has to be supplied from whatever source selected. Each unecessary 'stage' increases system losses....ie. it is more efficient to drive directly from the car engine than to drive from the engine>alternator>battery>electric motor.

Yes it is correct, But the issue is not related to the power consumption, it is significantly related to the energy consumption. The current system has a shortcut for taking source driving power directly from the engine power by a magnetic clutch and avoids to use long run " engine>alternator>battery>electric motor". However, the problem is the AC system has to have a deaf ear to respond to cooling load inside car cabin due to it is totally coherent with the engine speed. The AC system may has to operate by the same capacity in a cruise regardless the drastic drop in cooling load "sometimes heavily rain as in tropical countries" and the AC system is stopped only when the LP cut out reaches its value as in American cars and some brands such as Japanese cars the system runs until the frost covers up a specified part of the coil face area then during the off cycle the cooling is performed by natural cooling "ice melting". There are new orientations to cycle the compressor on/off to match the system capacity with cooling load but unfortunately it accelerates the magnetic clutch to ruin very fast due to the significant swing in compressor torque from high initial torque during starting to normal torque during operation. Back to the aim of using 'engine>alternator>battery>electric motor" is to isolate the AC system from the engine power and to be independent of working, and adopt the system capacity with cooling load by cutting off electrical current according to the thermostat reset point, this is typical in domestic refrigerator. But as my knowledge there is not a hermetic compressor with motor 12 V "direct current" in the range 1.25 Hp to 2 HP to be implemented in our colleague "mmtronic" project. If there is it will be very fine and if the electrical current can be adopted by multiple resistances controlled a digital temperature controller it will be outstanding in hot humid countries in which the mobile AC is a crucial part in the car.

Cheers

[The MG Pony]

After thinking it through, you will be much better off doing what is knowen as the redneck AC, geting a standerd house hold A/C and using an inverter and cupling it to the vehicle, or geting an A.C. Motor and coupling it to a vahicle A/C compressor driven by an inverter.

[amsahloul]

Dear member
BDF50 work with switch mode P.S 12/24 DC-120/240AC this compressor use GAZ A134a for frezzer not for AC,if any members of this site have try to use this gaz for Ac please inform us the result of the test if it works .
I have BDF50 in my store if you need this item.
amsahloul

[amsahloul]

Dear member
BDF50 work with switch mode P.S 12/24 DC-120/240AC this compressor use GAZ A134a for frezzer not for AC,if any members of this site have try to use this gaz for Ac please inform us the result of the test if it works .
I have BDF50 in my store if you need this item.
amsahloul