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malcoa
04-06-2007, 10:02 AM
Hi all,
Does anyone know what a fair day rate is for sub contracting on ac installs, i've been approached by a company who suggest i contract for them, all tools and equipment are provided, i provide the transport.
I am charging £140 p/day is that way under
Thanks
Malcoa

LRAC
04-06-2007, 11:47 AM
Hi all,
Does anyone know what a fair day rate is for sub contracting on ac installs, i've been approached by a company who suggest i contract for them, all tools and equipment are provided, i provide the transport.
I am charging £140 p/day is that way under
Thanks
Malcoa

thats way to cheap you should be looking for a minimum of at least £ 25.00 per hour.

Regards
Lrac

malcoa
04-06-2007, 12:37 PM
wow your right, i am way under

Thanks

taz24
04-06-2007, 02:08 PM
Hi all,
Does anyone know what a fair day rate is for sub contracting on ac installs, i've been approached by a company who suggest i contract for them, all tools and equipment are provided, i provide the transport.
I am charging £140 p/day is that way under
Thanks
Malcoa

Between £250 and £350.
But thats with mate.

£25 an hour is a good startin point.

taz.

GHAZ
04-06-2007, 07:57 PM
I dont know about ac installs but working on chillers is between 300-400 pounds aday

monkey spanners
04-06-2007, 09:08 PM
I talked to some data cablers a few weeks ago who charge between 400 and 1200!!! a day depending on who they are working for, tiny little tool box two screwdrivers one wire cutter, makes you think.

sinewave
04-06-2007, 10:24 PM
tiny little tool box two screwdrivers one wire cutter, makes you think.

It certainly does! :eek:


Any Monkey with a Spanner can do Data! :D

US Iceman
04-06-2007, 10:58 PM
Charge for your time according to what you think you are worth.

Obviously, the cable guys have a high opinion of themselves for just running wire.:D

coolments
04-06-2007, 11:43 PM
Hi we use a lot of subbies

£18-23 phr 40p-50p per mile rate for service calls by engineer and £300-375 day rate for install team. best way to earn good money is by giving a price for the installs and working hard to get it in fast but neat.

good luck on your adventure..!!!

Andy W
05-06-2007, 07:31 AM
I was getting £150 a day when I started working for my self in 1998, I charge £350 for myself and another bloke who I use as a labourer, 2 good engineers should demand £400 a day but finding folk who will pay that. Refrigeration engineers have always been under valued, on service calls I charge £28 per hour as that is the rate for my area. I still get customers moaning about it particular the Pakistanis but they think nothing about paying £90 per hour to have there Mercedes serviced, certainly makes you think.

I was talking or even arguing with an alarm guy who wanted to charge me £400 to change the alarm console in my workshop because it was on their dial out network, I told him I could get the same panel for £45 and fit it myself, yes but these are the rates that the Alarm Association sets for us!

old gas bottle
05-06-2007, 07:57 AM
same old same old, engineers need to earn a grand a week min ,to cover wages and expenses, but you cant get away with it on every job, makes you think that if there was a set rate for our trade we might benifit,but you just know someone will undercut you.

US Iceman
05-06-2007, 01:13 PM
...they think nothing about paying £90 per hour to have there Mercedes serviced,...


This offers some interesting insight into the issue. I doubt the Mercedes dealers get into price wars with one another and under quoting the other to get the job.

The trick is to apply that marketing strategy to us.

Abe
05-06-2007, 04:30 PM
The thing is what we ac guys are always on the look out for, cowboys undercutting buying kit off e bay.

I went to see a sanyo unit yesterday, the chap who called balked at the call out fee, but called back a couple days later as he couldnt get anyone out to check the thing for free

Anyway, the unit was out of gas, ( r410) he said the chap who fitted it kept recharging it, and at most it worked around two weeks.

I told him if he wanted to have the job done proper I have to start again, and for that you have to pay.

So the scenarion is, how to convince the customer that it does pay to pay more but have the job done proper first time round.

The sooner we have some certification the better. To exclude all the wannabes having a go, and to stop the big Depot stores selling the gear.

They coming out with legislation on release of gasses, how about regulating the industry for a change ? That way we can assure our rates and get decent remuneration rates for the skill involved.

Are any plans afoot by the Institute and refrigeration bodies to lobby on behalf of us ?

Maybe some members are wise on this front, and your input would be welcome

LRAC
05-06-2007, 07:29 PM
The sooner we have some certification the better. To exclude all the wannabes having a go, and to stop the big Depot stores selling the gear.

They coming out with legislation on release of gasses, how about regulating the industry for a change ? That way we can assure our rates and get decent remuneration rates for the skill involved.

Are any plans afoot by the Institute and refrigeration bodies to lobby on behalf of us ?

Maybe some members are wise on this front, and your input would be welcome

Hi Abe
Companies have been waiting and waiting for this legislation to help us charge decent money for the service's we offer. The cowboys out in fridge land will still make a living because we have to educate the customer that skills and certification cost money.

When was the last time a customer phoned up and asked if we employed skilled engineers NEVER as long as we can get it going their not bothered until they get the invoice. They never phone again?

The legislation won't change anything unless the wholesaler takes a stance on supplying stuff.

If i doesn't improve in the next 24 months i'm shutting our company down i cant afford to keep engineers on at a basic wage of £ 27K a year.

What about road tolls as well will the customer pay an increased call out fee or will he ask when an engineer is in his location next to avoid being lumped with a toll charge.

to reiterate the job would be ok if it wasn't for cheap customers.:(:(:(

Kind regards
Lrac

old gas bottle
05-06-2007, 09:05 PM
i think you hit it on the head there in one repect, travel !!! no one wants to pay for it,yet its more expensive to us that working, i thought this a couple of years back and have consentrated my customer base arround our location,and it does work, you can do less and make more, i,am sure other companys feel the same, dont give up chap, if everyone was to work local there would not be a problem,[ideal world] help save the polar bears too,good luck.

Makeit go Right
08-06-2007, 02:54 AM
Hi all,
Does anyone know what a fair day rate is for sub-contracting on a/c installs? I've been approached by a company who suggest I contract for them, all tools and equipment are provided - I provide the transport. I am charging £140 p/day, Is that way under?
Malcoa

I think you might be a bit low, but bear in mind, all those tools and equipment provided is a big expense. The teams referred to above are kitted-out teams with their own tools, plant and some scaffolding too sometimes, rather than, "here I am" types.

Part of the reason ther rates creep up is the expense of all those tools and equipment that they have available to do the job (normally on a lump sum).

Also, a bit off the target area, maybe, but you need to chat to your accountant about IR35 and "disguised employment", as you are looking very much like a permanently employed person on an hourly/daily rate, with all the tools and equipment provided by your employer. That's not a sub-contractor, per the HMRC view of things, and they regard this as cheating them out of NICs and tax revenue. They get real upset about it.

There are several points that count you in/out of the IR35 catch-net, and if you include those do/don'ts into your activities you will be outside the reach of the Inspectors, maybe. Ignor it all, and it is just a matter of time.

Funny thing is that it's just as important for your employer to get it right too, as they will get hit for Employer's NICs, at least.

malcoa
13-06-2007, 01:47 PM
Thanks "make it go right" valuble info:)

Sledge
14-06-2007, 06:06 AM
In Canada the guys that do real well installing equipment are running a complete set-up. Usually it is one guy who knows what he is doing, with 3 or 4 summer students. these teams work mainly in the residential, and small commercial industry. If you plan the work assignments for each student so that he is always doing the same task, he will become proficiaent at it...example one guy deals with maikng holes in the wall, one guy is running copper pipes, one guy does the tin etc. The first couple of jobs will be slow and painful, while you train your manpower, but by the end of the week, you will be doing the connections, charging the unit, and doing paperwork and ordering.
Set-up the truck with a brake, drill, torches etc and a stock of tin, a stock of copper, wire, tstats, etc
Turn it into a mobile factory and you will be doing a weeks work every day, and making large coin.

As far as keeping the amateurs out of the business, find the number of the environmental agencies in your neighbourhood/country and report everyone of your competitors who is failing to respect the environment by handling refrigerants in an unsafe manner. Once they have to do things right they will lose their price advantage. The EEC regulates release of refrigerants so having to follow the rules levels the playing field