Reqruitment, how do you find the right guy (or gal)?

[The Viking]

Reading through the posts, I'm lead to believe that there are other supervisors/managers among us here?

How do you manage to find experienced engineers?
How do you determine if the brain behind the CV is worth employing?

The reason I'm asking is that I/we (as in Ensys Ltd) have looked for a experienced service guy/gal for 18 months now.
We get a lot of CVs through from agencies, most of them can be filtered out before we even look beyond the first paragraph (we are based in Berkshire and want our engineers to live on the east side of London, a concept that seems alien to most agencies).
We advertised in ACR and only got a handful replies, none of which had more than 2 years experience.
Of the ones we call for an interview, most haven't got the experience we need (regardless of the fact they states that they got it on their CV). And of the ones we like and has offered a job to, only one has started with us.

What are we doing wrong?
Are you more successful, if so, how are you tackling this problem?

[Pooh]

Advertise and then give the people that apply a simple Skill Scan based on what you are looking for. Have a wish list of what you want and choose from there. Or get somebody to do it for you, but not an agency as they just want to place people to get them off their books.

Ian

[Abe]

Too many employers use the "academic" yardstick to determine suitability for management roles.

Yes, academic achievements are an indicator of a persons tenacity, drive , strategic outlook and perseverance.

But look at the wider, picture and assess on all round capability.

Has he got children, a family? Are they happy, healthy, doing well. Is he a good dad, a good partner ??

If he is, does that not say anything about his other abilities in organising a real life scenario.

So before you start discarding those CV's in the bin.......you may just be throwing away some gems......

Another thing, Dont overlook the Oldies........

[LRAC]

We have no alternative these days but to advertise our positions in the local press for the correct location of working area.
Agency's play no part in our recruitment drives as they help candidates fiddle their CV's. Its a hard slog to find good engineers but before we offer a position of employment we ask the candidate to attend for 1 day out with our senior engineer(we do pay them) so he can evaluate attitude and skills.

Kind regards
Lrac

[WebRam]

have you guys not tried the Job Database here on RE?

[Andy]

Reading through the posts, I'm lead to believe that there are other supervisors/managers among us here?

How do you manage to find experienced engineers?
How do you determine if the brain behind the CV is worth employing?

The reason I'm asking is that I/we (as in Ensys Ltd) have looked for a experienced service guy/gal for 18 months now.
We get a lot of CVs through from agencies, most of them can be filtered out before we even look beyond the first paragraph (we are based in Berkshire and want our engineers to live on the east side of London, a concept that seems alien to most agencies).
We advertised in ACR and only got a handful replies, none of which had more than 2 years experience.
Of the ones we call for an interview, most haven't got the experience we need (regardless of the fact they states that they got it on their CV). And of the ones we like and has offered a job to, only one has started with us.

What are we doing wrong?
Are you more successful, if so, how are you tackling this problem?

Our engineers recruit the engineers:) Word of mouth. We pay £500 an engineer to the guy that recruits his mate, now they have to stay a year and be what we are looking for, but the engineers have a very good judgement on who is suitable.

We did pay for some advertisements (boy did we pay) we had one chef and a young lad apply to an experienced engineers post.

The service manager keeps his ear to the ground and I actively encourage my guys to look out for someone to replace them when they move up the ladder:)

It is very, very had to get the right staff and nearly as herd to retain them, people keep trying to steal them:eek:

Perhaps a word with the local wholesaler may work, that is what I would have done when looking for a new job in the past.


Best of luck:D

Kind Regards Andy:)

[WebRam]

Ahem, the RE Job database is frequented by RE members. And its a very cheep way of advertising.
Nuff said.

[Andy]

Ahem, the RE Job database is frequented by RE members. And its a very cheep way of advertising.
Nuff said.


I tried to get our accountant to use it before we spent the money on the papers, I'm afraid I did not convince her. But I have put the seed in her head for the future (I hope)

Kind Regards Andy:)

[aawood1]

Hi Last year I was looking for a new job, Put my CV on line and used the jobs database. 20 + years Ammonia refrigeration, compressors and freezers not one reply apart from a Air Compressor servicing company and the loss of internet at work when they found out I was looking for a new job. This came about as one on line company's sent my CV to the company I still work for now but I did get more pay and a so called management job to train the new engineers to to my job. ( Could be on the way out when done.)

all the best Arthur.

[Argus]

.... when they found out I was looking for a new job. This came about as one on line company's sent my CV to the company I still work for now




This is probably a breach of the Data Protection Act unless you authorised them to distribute your private details to any and everyone regardless.

It's UK only, folks, but other countries may have similar rules. Definitely illegal to circulate your CV unless you have authorised them to do so.

It's best to check out the small print before you sign up to these on-line registers. Some of them are very dodgy.

.

[Josip]

Hi Last year I was looking for a new job, Put my CV on line and used the jobs database. 20 + years Ammonia refrigeration, compressors and freezers not one reply.......

all the best Arthur.

me too, almost 27 years in branch (industrial ammonia refrigeration).

I'm freelance for many years, unfortunately now there is not too much jobs here or around the world, at least for me, so I try to find some company to utilize my experience, knowledge...but no replay:confused:

Yes, the problem is for sure my age (year of production:D), but....


( Could be on the way out when done.)
This is sad, but very possible:mad:

Best regards, Josip :)

[completehvac]

We have also been trying to recruit engineers in the leighton buzzard / milton keynes areas for well over a year now, and again get many cv's form agencys or from people in completely different careers who fancy a go! All we want is some knowledgable engineers to join our team.

If you know anyone we can try i would be happy to pay a finders fee!

[Samarjit Sen]

We are facing the same problem in our country. For the last 6 months I have been trying to locate an experienced Engineer for designing/marketing and a site supervisor. My advirtisements in the news paper resulted no replies.

How to locate one even if he has a little knowledge of refrigeration.

I thought it was only here, but after going through this thread I find it is something International.

[Samarjit Sen]

Hi Josip,

I just went through your post. If you are willing to take up project design work in our country, there are lots of scope. Once you will have to invest and come over to India. There are hundreds of ammonia plants lying unoperational due to faulty design and workmanship. You can meet the owners who have given up hope and have shut down their plants. Give it a thought. If you are interested send me a PM.

[bernard]

Hi

From an employees point of view,the best way to recruit is by word of mouth,think of ways to keep your present engineers happy and they,ll recruit for you.Oh and don,t forget the hourly rate.:)

Regards Bernard

[bernard]

Hi

I can,t seem to get to grips with job database here,after reading an advert I just want to flick through the rest of the adverts but can,t see how,if I press the back button I loose my page.I sure its me but thought I ask.I,m sure it would be easier if I could just enter my details and have all the jobs e-mailed to me.

Redgards Bernard

[Latte]

We have also been trying to recruit engineers in the leighton buzzard / milton keynes areas for well over a year now,


I Know that feeling, for such a big town (MK) there seems to be a shortage of engineers out that way.

Word of mouth is normally the best way, just ask the guys in youre local NRS/HRP if they know of anyone looking, unfortunatly there isnt an wholesaler in MK (NRS wellingborough nearest)

You can tell there is a lack of engineers by the rates companies are offering to qualified engineers. Most of the big guys in cambridge are offering up the £14ph, how are you meant to compete with that.

Regards

Fatboy

[Abe]

The reason there are so few engineers out there is simply there is a shortage.

This industry is rife with free lancers. The only secure positions are with the big established companies and those with projects with supermarket chains.

Otherwise the industry is served by small operators from city to city.

The refrigeration industry has evolved headless with little strategic research, analisis of skills required or direction. It is led purely by demand and with little investment in skills promotion nor is it regulated. The investment comes primarily from companies themselves.

We also tend to lose people who leave for other EC states and Oz and New Zealand and Canada

The growth of Air Conditioning and GSHP will now see many specialise in this area. My company is now 70 percent Air Conditioning and I want to make it 100 percent.

So its no wonder you will struggle to find good engineers.

The onset of registration will be positive as it will serve to enhance status and pay and offer recognition to fridge men. It will also oust the DIY who are presently a thorn in our sides. The sooner we are regulated the better.

[themba]

Reading through the posts, I'm lead to believe that there are other supervisors/managers among us here?

How do you manage to find experienced engineers?
How do you determine if the brain behind the CV is worth employing?

The reason I'm asking is that I/we (as in Ensys Ltd) have looked for a experienced service guy/gal for 18 months now.
We get a lot of CVs through from agencies, most of them can be filtered out before we even look beyond the first paragraph (we are based in Berkshire and want our engineers to live on the east side of London, a concept that seems alien to most agencies).
We advertised in ACR and only got a handful replies, none of which had more than 2 years experience.
Of the ones we call for an interview, most haven't got the experience we need (regardless of the fact they states that they got it on their CV). And of the ones we like and has offered a job to, only one has started with us.

What are we doing wrong?
Are you more successful, if so, how are you tackling this problem?

you may wish to know that there are guys like me who are willing to work for organisations like yours, do you employ people from other countries?
i also suggest that you train those who have the potential, it is difficult to find exactly what you are looking for so you have to build them

[The Viking]

you may wish to know that there are guys like me who are willing to work for organisations like yours, do you employ people from other countries?
i also suggest that you train those who have the potential, it is difficult to find exactly what you are looking for so you have to build them

Well themba,

As we got one chap from Ireland, two from India, One from South Africa and I'm Swedish, I think the answer to your first question is Yes.

And at the moment we got an Engineer to Apprentice ratio of 1/1, so we are trying as best we can. The problem with apprentices is that it takes atleast 5 years before you can kick them out sorting things out by them selves.

But yes, we are an openminded bunch and we are trying.

[The MG Pony]

I was just going to say thats the problem, Near no one is willing to make skilled engineers, they have to come from some where and with so few places ever willing to take the time and train them what do they expect when their older tech retires or wanders off to a nicer pasture!

I've tuaght my self as much as I can and been looking for a company willing to take me on hell I'd even do it for reduced pay, I'd be happy with just enough to sor tof live on! But so few takers.

[frank]

On another note, we have spent time and money training people only for them to get up to NVQII, sign up for the NVQIII, spend a couple of months on the course, and then come into the office and demand higher wages 'cos they think they know it all and their mates at college are on more per hour.

When they are knocked back because you can't justify any additional expense for lack of experience and knowledge they chuck their notice in leaving you back to square one. :rolleyes:

Just what is the answer?

[The MG Pony]

Find people with a sense of loyalty and honor! (Not many of our kind left given but there are some!)

I build and repair for the love of making things and fixing things, money is just an annoying stipulation of life!

[Abe]

On another note, we have spent time and money training people only for them to get up to NVQII, sign up for the NVQIII, spend a couple of months on the course, and then come into the office and demand higher wages 'cos they think they know it all and their mates at college are on more per hour.

When they are knocked back because you can't justify any additional expense for lack of experience and knowledge they chuck their notice in leaving you back to square one. :rolleyes:

Just what is the answer?

You can try drawing up an employment contract with a restrictive covenant.

By law every employee must be issued with an employment contract within two months of joining up.

You can have a fixed term contract, say 5 years, but what that means is that employee cannot be dismissed within that period.

Or you can have an open contract. Impose restrictive covenants :

The four types are:

1. non-compete covenants –

Prevents an ex-employee from directly competing or working for a competitor, usually within a specific geographical area, for a set period following termination;

The set period must be reasonable, say 1 year.
Geographic area, say around 10 mile radius.

2. non-solicitation/non-dealing covenants –

Prevent an ex-employee from entering into working relationships with former customers, by seeking or accepting orders for goods and services, for a set period following termination:
Again, consider time periods, must be reasonable

3. non-poaching of employees –

Prevent an ex-employee from recruiting former colleagues for a set period following termination;

4.
restrictions on the use of confidential information –

Prohibit the use of any confidential information acquired by an employee during employment. Remember you can only protect " trade secrets" Not information that is freely available.

You can protect your customer files, databases for instance.

Bear in mind the following:

MUST BE REASONABLE to be ENFORCEABLE
The Courts always consider what is Reasonable.

Id a clause is found in the Contract to be unreasonable, the Judge will strike it out.

IF YOU WRONGFULLY DISMISS AN EMPLOYEE:

Bear in mind is that if you terminate the employment of your employee wrongfully, for example, by failing to follow contractual disciplinary procedures or by failing to give due notice under the contract, then the covenants will automatically become unenforceable

Where an employee leaves of their own accord the situation is different.


Remember:

There are simply no hard and fast rules other than the old maxim – never enter into a contract unless you know exactly what you are agreeing to.

DISCLAIMER:

THE INFORMATION HERE PROVIDES ROUGH GUIDANCE ONLY. IT IS OFFERED WITHOUT PREJUDICE

ALWAYS GET LEGAL ADVICE FROM AN EMPLOYMENT LAW SPECIALIST

[Abe]

you may wish to know that there are guys like me who are willing to work for organisations like yours, do you employ people from other countries?
i also suggest that you train those who have the potential, it is difficult to find exactly what you are looking for so you have to build them

Themba,

I know that Malawi is a poor economy relative to the UK. However it cannot afford a brain and skills drain. Yes, it would be good for you to gain some useful commercial experience in the UK and then utilise the benefit of this gain to the advancement of your own country.

Africa is badly in need of skills and economy regeneration. Im not wanting to introduce a political stance to this thread, refrigeration is an international phenomena and is practical worldwide.

In the end an upliftment of your own economy helps all. It helps manufacturers from abroad and it provides jobs in your own country, feeds the exchequer and this u;timately results in better services and infrastructure like roads and telecommunications.

How about engineers from the West doing short stints in poorer companies, setting up local training centres and the like, going out to see some plant , and motivating local youngsters to consider refrigeration as a career choice.


Am I just another dreamer ???
:):)

[The MG Pony]

What one place did here, albeit not related to refrigeration was to pay for all training, but if the employee chose to quite befor a 5 year mark, he'd have to pay the company back for all the schooling. Seems like a fair deal to me, and they currently have a good crew of electritions that all seem happy albeit stressed with so much work on the area as of late !

[FreezerGeezer]

We have also been trying to recruit engineers in the leighton buzzard / milton keynes areas for well over a year now, and again get many cv's form agencys or from people in completely different careers who fancy a go! All we want is some knowledgable engineers to join our team.

If you know anyone we can try i would be happy to pay a finders fee!

So, anyone know of someone in the MK / Luton / Aylesbury / Watford area looking to move?

[coolments]

Hi there as a service manager I have had similar problems with finding good engineers in the past, always the best engineers are word of mouth or by recomendation from your best supplier (its not in there interest to suggest a muppet to you and they generally know the good guys from the bad just by trade counter gossip), but my general rule of thumb when looking through CV's from agencies is to put all late starters at the back and look at the guys which started from school as aprentices first min ten years experience. Also problem with recruting from agencies is that you know they keep passing further job offers onto them later so poaching is a big problem, when you check CV's of engineers from agency's you can clearly see most change jobs every 12-18 months.
On the flip side as an engineer I only ever seeked / got employment from word of mouth, as there are just as many bad employers as there is engineers.
Any way back what i was talking about, after months of frustration trying to find an engineer light at the end tunnel for me was one just walked into my office as he was passing being hacked of with his boss, interviewed him and took him on and he turned out the be a real gem (his old bosses loss). also we are investors in people provide all training possible for our aprentices and juggle them round engineers in order to create future quality engineers.

Good luck in the quest for engineers guys.

[alphi]

Hello Boys and Girls,
Want some tips that might help you screening your people to be your workwith, PM me......

kr
alphi