R22 vs R134a

[Lc_shi]

Hi sir
If charge R134a into r22 sytem, what problem will happen? will it break down the compressor?

regards
LC

[The MG Pony]

R-134a has much lower head pressurs and discharge temp then R-22. The real issue will be the oil.

Long as you charge with POE I see no ill effect other then reduced capacity, and perhaps may need a speed control on the fan.

[wkd]

An R22 system is designed for that refrigerant
you should not charge a system with another gas until you have spoken to the manufacturer who will advise if it can be done and what if any mods need to be made for example TEV will need to be replaced and compressors may not be compatible,the list will go on.It is more likely the manufacturer will advise R407c as a drop in this gas operates at approximately the same pressures as R22 with generally a small decrease in capacity but be prepared for a small increse in absorbed power.Above all seek advice.

[The MG Pony]

He's referring to compressor not the system. BTW there will naturally be an efficiency loss do to the lower Mass flow due to the compressors different displacement.

Why would you wish to use an R-22 compressor with such a poor refrigerant? I'd use R-290 my self as all is fairly identical to R-22

[wkd]

LC ShI actually states system in his question.I agree there will be other gasses he can use but he does need to take advice from the manufacturer!!

[The MG Pony]

Ah yes so he did I missed that sorry.

[DeB]

LC, I would say pipe sizes may not be adequate,oil return problems,obviously the expansion device,different oil and possible motor overheat problems with less refrigerant volume over the motor

[taz24]

Hi sir
If charge R134a into r22 sytem, what problem will happen? will it break down the compressor?

regards
LC

The context of the situation is needed before an answer can be given. In principle the comp will do what you ask but there are so many veriables that a definative answer is impossible.

Cheers taz.

[Lc_shi]

Hi sirs
Thanks for your information.
It's a real case ,a maintenance worker charge the r134a wrongly into a r22 system and the client say it's the main cause breaking down the compressor. I can't get it. If release the r134a and revacuum to add r22. I think it should not cause problem. Am I correct or not?

regards
LC

[Samarjit Sen]

Dear Lc,

For operating a system with R 34a which has been earlier charged with R 22, you have to ensure that the system is completely cleaned and the oil is changed to POE oil. Change the TEV also. I f all these are taken care of, then there is no reason for the compressor to break down. We have done this a number of times. The only problem that arises that the capacity is effected slightly.

With best wishes,

[star882]

When replacing the TXV, it it necessary to recalculate the capacity? (For example, if you started with a R22 system with a 1/2 ton TXV, what capacity would you use for the replacement TXV?)

[Lc_shi]

Star:)Is the avtar your gf ?
I want to confirm if there's any chemical reaction for r134a with r22 mineral oil which can cause any vital damage to the r22 oil. pls help

regards
LC

[ernestlin]

Dear Mr. Shi, Long time no see..In my opinion, it cann't cause the failure of compressor as you said. But it could make a negative effect on TXV regulation and the COP of the system.. In addition, it also might bring incogulable gas when those two refrigrant and mineral oil are mixed. Those phenomena have been demonstrated in the accident when someone add the R404a to R22 system. Hope above mentioned things are useful to you.

[star882]

Star:)Is the avtar your gf ?
I want to confirm if there's any chemical reaction for r134a with r22 mineral oil which can cause any vital damage to the r22 oil. pls help

regards
LC
Believe it or not, what you see above is one of the most beautiful refrigeration (and electrical, and computer...) engineers out there!
As for oil issues, R134a simply won't carry the oil, but it will not react. When retrofitting a R12 system to R134a, about all that's done is change the oil.
Now, accidentally mixing refrigerants can cause lots of strange problems. But if the system is properly retrofitted, it should work just fine.

[Abby Normal]

I think Britney is better looking. What is your story star are you some 17 year old girl , a guy from china, a wannabee overclocker or someone's bot program?

You are just playing around on all the refrigeration and hvac forums.

I think it is a waste of time even answering you.

[Abby Normal]

As far as I can tell you recycle other people's posts from one forum to another.

You are not really in this field and should not be giving any advice whatsoever. I say you are a fraud.

[LRAC]

As far as I can tell you recycle other people's posts from one forum to another.

You are not really in this field and should not be giving any advice whatsoever. I say you are a fraud.

Nice to meet someone with balls

Regards
Lrac

[wkd]

I did extensive testing on MOD equipment about 10 years ago( 10,000 hr trial) when they went from R12 to R134A.As with R22 mineral oil is the issue you need to make sure you flush it completely,make sure the pipe sizes component sizes are capable of the application you usually find you need approximately 30% more heat exchange surface area than you did with R22 and you will also find leakage problems with seals and gaskets R134A is a very aggressive but good claning agent and causes leaks in systems where R22 and R12 just never did.
Just for info changing from R12 to R134A gave a slight increase in cooling capacity and the efficiency was slightly up as well,just the pesky leaks.

[Samarjit Sen]

Dear Lc,

The mineral oil for R 22 and the POE for 134a will not mix nor will there be any chemical reaction. Further if there has been any damage to the compressor parts, you can be rest assured it is not due to change of refrigerant.

I shall give you more details on this subject in a day or two as I shall be meeting the Fuchs people and shall discuss this issue. In case I can get hold of some documents I shall mail them to you.

With best wishes,

[star882]

I did extensive testing on MOD equipment about 10 years ago( 10,000 hr trial) when they went from R12 to R134A.As with R22 mineral oil is the issue you need to make sure you flush it completely,make sure the pipe sizes component sizes are capable of the application you usually find you need approximately 30% more heat exchange surface area than you did with R22 and you will also find leakage problems with seals and gaskets R134A is a very aggressive but good claning agent and causes leaks in systems where R22 and R12 just never did.
Just for info changing from R12 to R134A gave a slight increase in cooling capacity and the efficiency was slightly up as well,just the pesky leaks.
What happens when you retrofit a R22 unit to R134a? (E.g. change in efficiency, capacity, compressor noise level, etc.) I'd like to know because when I build my liquid loop chiller that uses R134a, I might use R22 parts since they might be cheaper.

Why would you wish to use an R-22 compressor with such a poor refrigerant? I'd use R-290 my self as all is fairly identical to R-22
Because it is not as easily available as R134a? AFAIK, in my area, United Refrigeration is the only store that sells it. The item number is 014R290 for 14oz if anyone wants to get a quote. Larger amounts are special order according to the catalog.

[old gas bottle]

well i,am not convinced you can happily retrofit every R22 system with R134A without problems,sure some will be fine but as lots of us know putting HFC,s in old systems finds new leaks, perishers older rubber type seals on valves and compressor "O" rings and sight glasses, and probley the biggest is the plant duty will be reduced making the run time go up [in some cases continuos] then you will get compressor failure through overheating and loss of suction cooling, and whats the point in using excess energy, i,am with some of the other guys, use R407C or best suited equivelent