R-12 and the reply

[reefermadness]

I have recently been kicked off a forum since i
1. offended other users.
2. Told the said person to break the law.

Of course you can't read the thread anymore since it has been removed due to its "graphic" nature. All i said was blow off the r-12, evac, and recharge with something else. I don't think that i offened anyones personal dignaty there. As well, releasing refrigerant into the atmosphere is not illegel everywhere in the world. Unfortunatly it is still a very common practise in Canada. If you didn't do it time to time, a person might find it hard to get a job in transport anyway. Since i can't send the site modarator a personal message, for technical reasons unknown, this is the only way that i find resonalbe to reply. This is just a difference in culture if you will. You have to remember that working in the UK, you have some of the best working conditions and safety regulations that are actually checked up and enforced. I would love to work somewhere where the company actually backs up the mechanic and the law, but until then, i work from experience.

Take care, and hope to hear back.

Thanks,
Reefermadness

[The MG Pony]

Offended is the wrong term, more like disgusted, that is like telling some one to shoot them self, only it effects every living thing on the glob rather then the indavidual.

who with a working brain will do some thing to conciously do some thing that they know will cuase damage to their environment? That is sh*t poor ethic no matter what part of the world you are in.

Why in your right mind would you even sujest such a thing let alone do it. I must say that greatly lowers my respect towards you as a technition.

[reefermadness]

I'm sorry you have that opinion, but there is a difference between a loaded gun and CFC's. You are this concrened about the enviroment i suggest that you focus your energy towards something that would show more result. There is no need to make this personal.
I haven't said anything towards you to warrant such a remark. Perhaps i would consider your opinion if you considered others.

Peace.

ReeferMadness

[The MG Pony]

I do focus tons on reducing environmental impact, it is personal to all living things, and with all the concise evidence of the damage such things do when released how could any say it is ok to vent when they know better? When you vent it distroys the ozon over my head, so it is personal, it is personal to me, my kids should I have any to my friends to my family and every one ells.

[reefermadness]

Ok. Understandable. If this is personal, then you also have a beef with everyone that drives a car, works in heavy industry, petroleom plants, etc.... Its hard to take the protocol seriously when the government is polluting its own backyard and selling it to us, example; oil sands, uranium mines.....

The reality is that we are all polluters. I agree that we all have the responsibility to make choices that better ourselves, but at the same token make choices that can actually make an impact. For instance, i drive a car, it pollutes more than anything else i am tied DIRECTLY to, but at the same time, what other choice do i have....?

We should be working together on actual goals that can be reached rather than a buerocratic money grab that produces so little when the rest of the world is so far behind. Perhaps we should be doing more on the global scale? At the end of the day its just a lot of noise, i'm just a mechanic with an opinion, if i wanted change i would be in government.

Peace.

Reefermadness

[The MG Pony]

Yes I do, I am disgusted with the lack of care current society displays toward the environment, at the rate we are distroying it I think another plague is in dir need to thin the population!

That or we all work togeather to get it all back in check and work towards actualy making the environment the top priority and ensuring a continued futur for nature and our selfs. Technology is a good thing providing we keep the thought that no nature = no us, we are apart of the plannet and thus the technology used should not be distroying it.

[taz24]

I have recently been kicked off a forum since i
1. offended other users.
2. Told the said person to break the law.


Take care, and hope to hear back.

Thanks,
Reefermadness


Were you given a chance to reword the post or any warning at all, or were you just kicked off the forum?

taz.

[Peter_1]

Taz24, this is indeed a good remark, I will discuss this.

[WebRam]

lets get something clear, he was NOT kicked of the forum. He incurred infraction points and the infraction was not enough for him to be banned. AND the infraction will degrade after 7 days, unlike the gas he advocates blowing off into the atmosphere.

nuff said on the banning k ;)

[winfred.dela]

As well, releasing refrigerant into the atmosphere is not illegel everywhere in the world. Unfortunatly it is still a very common practise in Canada.


We are in the so called Third World (with very small consumption of these gases) and we are already aware of this for many years. We have been trying to regulate everybody using this refrigerant.

- It's really unfortunate if a country like Canada find this practice (releasing of refrigerant) common. :mad:




This is just a difference in culture if you will. You have to remember that working in the UK, you have some of the best working conditions and safety regulations that are actually checked up and enforced.


Difference in Culture?
Best working Condition & Safety Regulations?

- The last time i checked, Canada is a lot lot better than the Philippines. :rolleyes:




I would love to work somewhere where the company actually backs up the mechanic and the law, but until then, i work from experience.


We can all make this an excuse especially in places like ours. But we should think about the next generation's future. In addition, i would like to quote just like what most ENVIROMENTALISTS SAY:

"THINK GLOBALLY, ACT LOCALLY"

With this i hope each of us will realize that a small act like releasing to the atmosphere a small amount of refrigerant gas affect not only us but also the future generations.

. . . :)

[LRAC]

Hi Reefermadness

As you and other members realise things have changed over the years, i am still not sure that the blame for all environmental problems should have landed at hte refrigeration industry feet, but hey we're an easy target.

Scientists still argue about the ozone layer let alone fridge guys. Is it a natural process or is it caused by industry who knows the definitive answer, we may get the answer in 200 years time?(but maybe too late by then).

From what i see you just said the wrong thing in the wrong place, environmentalists are everywhere and just waiting to make an example of someone, this could either be by a mistake we make on servicing or system design floors, we all have a duty of care but mistakes do happen.

We all know we should recover refrigerants but i bet not all do? Just recently i visited a refrigerant manufacturer who was still holding R12 for the export developing world market.( nicely hidden away)

We should be looking at the global market and not at local level, what ever we save others let go, in my book this is totally unexceptable. Will they soon start blaming country's for environmental disasters and we all start hating each other, wars have started over less issues than this.

This forum seems to do more on advising engineers not to vent gas than our governments do?

Kind regards
Lrac

[Greg W]

What about all the R12 fridges out there still humming away , what happens in 15 years when its time to take it to the rubbish dump. How many people have chucked out an old fridge without getting the gas reclaimed. I would possibly laugh at someone who said (I just finished reclaiming the charge out of my household fridge or box airconditioner). Refrigerant should be reclaimed, but its not enough to hope all Techs are doing the right thing because Ref Mechs are controlled by the Dollar so adjust your quotes to allow time for reclaiming the gas , and you miss out on the Job because some dirty rat will do it cheep and nasty.
We need the help of everyone to spreed the word.

[winfred.dela]

As you and other members realise things have changed over the years, i am still not sure that the blame for all environmental problems should have landed at hte refrigeration industry feet, but hey we're an easy target.


Please be informed that its not only REFRIGERATION INDUSTRY that should change its ways.

If you are also talking to the Pollution Control Industry (e.g. Waste Water Treatment), they are being monitored and required to do things that are almost impossible.

But if you really think about it in a positive way, this also helps the industry. Practitioners are now being required to be innovative and push to the limits of their capabilities.

Would it be better that WE ALSO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY to better ourselves?




Scientists still argue about the ozone layer let alone fridge guys. Is it a natural process or is it caused by industry who knows the definitive answer, we may get the answer in 200 years time?(but maybe too late by then).


If we only try to read the latest reports about our environment, we will know that there are a lot of proofs.

Of course, there are also those who try to see only the other side: that the Enviroment is the same as if the Refrigeration Industry have not used the ODP refrigerants.

To help minimize the effect in the future, We should at least realized that we can do a lot individually.




From what i see you just said the wrong thing in the wrong place, environmentalists are everywhere and just waiting to make an example of someone, this could either be by a mistake we make on servicing or system design floors, we all have a duty of care but mistakes do happen.


If each of us will only think and act like an ENVIRONMENTALIST, we could make our neighborhood (and the World) a little better.


I hope i have shared something valuable today.

. . . :)

[reefermadness]

I suppose that i am on a different wave length then some. OEM, thats Thermo King and Carrier franchises are both quilty of this here. It may not be directly blowing off gas, but topping up units on R-500 still, or putting a couple pounds into a unti with KNOWN leaky shaft seal. It most certainly is not right, just saying that it does happen. Believe it or not i just did repairs on an Eagle running R-500. It still had half a charge left and i do have some kicking around. It was converted to R-401b, thats the right way. Refrigerant for the most part is too expensive to just let go, at 30 bucks a pound (generally speaking) who could afford it.
As for Canada having strict working conditions and enviro laws, they do, its just that there isn't enough people enforcing them.

Just one more thought: Where do you think all the refrigerant goes in the end?? Thats why we have to keep buying more. I can't wait for what the long term results of the HFC's are. has anyone heard.

ReeferMadness

[The MG Pony]

What about all the R12 fridges out there still humming away , what happens in 15 years when its time to take it to the rubbish dump. How many people have chucked out an old fridge without getting the gas reclaimed. I would possibly laugh at someone who said (I just finished reclaiming the charge out of my household fridge or box airconditioner). Refrigerant should be reclaimed, but its not enough to hope all Techs are doing the right thing because Ref Mechs are controlled by the Dollar so adjust your quotes to allow time for reclaiming the gas , and you miss out on the Job because some dirty rat will do it cheep and nasty.
We need the help of everyone to spreed the word.

Here in Canada By law the dump must have all fridges evacuated befor going any where, the people must drop them off as the trucks will not pick them up, and R-12 is very strictly regulated.

[The MG Pony]

FYI Most of the R-12 and such are incinerated, sadly some is sold to china and other such places.

[reefermadness]

People in Alberta just dump fridges and the such. No one checks, no one cares. Alberta is like the wild west.

[chillin out]

What about all the R12 fridges out there still humming away , what happens in 15 years when its time to take it to the rubbish dump. How many people have chucked out an old fridge without getting the gas reclaimed. I would possibly laugh at someone who said (I just finished reclaiming the charge out of my household fridge or box airconditioner). Refrigerant should be reclaimed, but its not enough to hope all Techs are doing the right thing because Ref Mechs are controlled by the Dollar so adjust your quotes to allow time for reclaiming the gas , and you miss out on the Job because some dirty rat will do it cheep and nasty.
We need the help of everyone to spreed the word.
Here in the UK we not only need to remove the gas from the system but also from the foam insulation, as cfc's were used to propell the foam into the case.

The gas gets reclaimed then the comp gets chopped out and the whole cabinet goes into a shredder for the gas to be removed from the foam.

Chillin:) :)

[Greg W]

Canada and the UK , are Two good countries , I wonder what the asian countries are doing because its still not been done in Australia. Buy the way how long have Canada and Uk had this introduced?
Cheers
Greg