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NH3LVR
20-12-2006, 04:57 PM
One of our customers has become concerned with the amount of water present in his system.
We need to install a new purger, and would like to include a dewatering option.
The equipment selection is straight forward.
What remains is to test the Nh3 for water levels in order to estimate the savings of removing it.
I have found Airgas offers this testing service in the US, but was wondering if anyone has experience in this area. I suspect it would not be practical to do this in the field and laboratory measurements would be required.

US Iceman
21-12-2006, 12:56 AM
HI NH3LVR,

Here is a good article by Ray Ficker at Hansen Technologies.
http://www.hantech.com/documents/PDF/WaterInAmmoniaSys.pdf


Try this link. Look at page 4.
http://www.tannerind.com/PDF/green-aqua-amm.pdf

Here is another link from the same site that has some good general information.
http://www.tannerind.com/PDF/blue-anhy-amm.pdf

Here is a little gadget used for the testing from
Airgas Specialty Products (the old LaRoche Industries)
http://www.airgasspecialtyproducts.com/UserDyn/laroche/tech%20bulletins/tb%204.1%20cold%20flo.pdf

There is a lot of information on the Airgas site for ammonia, so be sure to check that out.

One last possible source is IIAR. Look for...
Bulletin 108 - Guidelines for: Water Contamination in Ammonia Refrigeration Systems

It is $30 for a non-member price.

If you can check the operating suction pressure and the difference between the sauration temperatures that may provide an indication of how far off you might be. The higher the water content, the more of the offset in temperatures will appear.

Happy reading...:D

NH3LVR
21-12-2006, 01:33 AM
Thanx US Iceman;
I knew I could count on you!

US Iceman
21-12-2006, 02:00 AM
Always happy to help.:cool:

Let me know how you make out with this affair.

I LUV NH3
28-12-2006, 08:05 PM
I too have read Ray's paper on water contamination. I have recently worked with Ray with the installation of Hansen's New Purger Plus. This is a purger that can also remove water. We installed Hansen's first unit. It took a little tweaking here and there but so far so good. If you are in the midwest and would like your ammonia tested for water we will do it for $500 plus travel expenses. Send me a message if you are interested.

Mark Sanchez
05-01-2007, 01:11 AM
I too have read Ray's paper on water contamination. I have recently worked with Ray with the installation of Hansen's New Purger Plus. This is a purger that can also remove water. We installed Hansen's first unit. It took a little tweaking here and there but so far so good. If you are in the midwest and would like your ammonia tested for water we will do it for $500 plus travel expenses. Send me a message if you are interested.

How is Hansen's purger working for water removal?
Ray did a presentation for our local RETA and I was interested on how well it works.

Thanks
Mark

nh3wizard
05-01-2007, 12:56 PM
I believe Parker R/S offers a purger that will remove water in the system, Ill see if I can find the information.

Josip
05-01-2007, 01:57 PM
Hi, all :)

This is from Hansen

http://www.hantech.com/documents/PDF/WaterInAmmoniaSys.pdf

good to read;)

Best regards, Josip :)

I LUV NH3
17-01-2007, 05:55 PM
Mark,

So far so good. If you have multiple vessels that operate in a vacuum you will need to have a manifold installed that will allow the purger to take liquid from each vessel. This could obviously be done manually or automatically. The purger is designed to take liquid from a single source and therefore requires somenone to select which vessel is to be purged from. I hope this makes sense. PM if you need further details.

US Iceman
17-01-2007, 06:11 PM
The purger is designed to take liquid from a single source and therefore requires somenone to select which vessel is to be purged from.


Probably for the same reason you don't manifold all of the condenser purge connections together, heh?

I LUV NH3
17-01-2007, 10:34 PM
I am confused by your comment. All purge points are typically manifolded to a common line that is fed the foul gas connection on the autopurger. In the case of the Purger Pluse. The above is true with the exception of the water removal side of things. There is no solenoid valve installed between the purger plus and the low temp liquid line. The low temp liquid line is the line from which the purger plus samples its ammonia and removes the water from. Not the non condensible purge points. If a someone wants to connect multiple vessels to have water removed by the purger plus, then a manifold would be needed and a particular vessel could then be selected to have its water removed. Of course there would be some valving and check valves required to make this work. I have discussed this with Ray and he is planning a revision to adress this for future purgers.

NH3LVR
17-01-2007, 11:07 PM
I am confused by your comment. All purge points are typically manifolded to a common line that is fed the foul gas connection on the autopurger.
I am confused as well. I think this is a matter of semantics. Hansen wants all purge points brought in to the purger in one place, but through solenoid valves so the purge points are selectable, according to the paragraph entitled "Foul Gas Piping for Multipoint Purging" on page two of this pdf.


http://www.hantech.com/documents/PDF/AP003.pdf

US Iceman
18-01-2007, 01:09 AM
Sorry for the too brief comment guys.



Hansen wants all purge points brought in to the purger in one place, but through solenoid valves so the purge points are selectable


That's the point I poorly tried to make. It's not the manifold as the problem, but having multiple sources open simulataneously on the manifold.

karelsdr
18-01-2007, 01:12 AM
What I have done is basically made a still. I have installed an oil pot on a high pressure receiver with a heating element set about 20 degrees above condensing. Run a line back to the top of the receiver or condenser. I get the operators to valve of the supply line and drain. Make sure a relief is installed around isolation valves

US Iceman
18-01-2007, 01:23 AM
That's an interesting idea karelsdr. Just like an oil pot. Do you use a similar operating procedure for this too?

karelsdr
18-01-2007, 02:13 AM
Yeah same idea. Just that in this case a heater is needed to keep the ammonia moving so the water(and oil) is left behind

US Iceman
18-01-2007, 03:26 AM
I've used that idea before for an oil still in a large R-22 system, but never thought about using it for water in an ammonia system.

What kW heater were you using? It would have to be fairly large due to the latent heat of ammonia, or just wait for a longer time.