PDA

View Full Version : Final Help needed!



EagleEyes
24-11-2006, 10:04 AM
Guys,

Got today the last quote for my home time for decision... can you giv me some guidance on which you consider the best price/run-cost alternative? NO colling need.
- Aircon (DAIKIN): 10.000 Euro
- Diesel with water radiators (BIASI): 5.000 Euro
- Geo pump + fancoils (Avenue Energie): 12.500 Euro
- Storage Heaters + Low consumption elect radiators (HAVERLAND): 3.000 Euro

I know that the Geo pump is the most efficient, but for instance comparing with electrical option and if I spend 1.000 Euro/year on electricity it takes at least 10 years to recover the difference...

Another question: All the quotes are based on a 20kw need for the whole house, except the geo that is 13kw. The guy of the Geo made AREA*HIGHT*1*20*1.2...

Thanks a lot.

LRAC
24-11-2006, 03:39 PM
Hi Eagle eyes

If your sure you don't need cooling i'd go for storage heaters, you will have to be a kean weather watcher though to judge if you need to run them 24 hrs in advance.

Hope this helps
Lrac

taz24
24-11-2006, 06:31 PM
Guys,

Got today the last quote for my home time for decision... can you giv me some guidance on which you consider the best price/run-cost alternative? NO colling need.
- Aircon (DAIKIN): 10.000 Euro
- Diesel with water radiators (BIASI): 5.000 Euro
- Geo pump + fancoils (Avenue Energie): 12.500 Euro
- Storage Heaters + Low consumption elect radiators (HAVERLAND): 3.000 Euro

I know that the Geo pump is the most efficient, but for instance comparing with electrical option and if I spend 1.000 Euro/year on electricity it takes at least 10 years to recover the difference...

Another question: All the quotes are based on a 20kw need for the whole house, except the geo that is 13kw. The guy of the Geo made AREA*HIGHT*1*20*1.2...

Thanks a lot.

How big is your house? An average 3 bed semi will require about 8kw.
Do you live in a barn?;)
What is deisel with water heaters? Do you mean fuel oil?

The price for Heatpump is based on a payback over 15 years so if you have worked it out and you can pay it of in ten years then you will be better of in the long term.

Why have you be quoted in euros?

For me your query has opened up more questions than answers.

Cheers taz.

EagleEyes
24-11-2006, 06:38 PM
Diesel with water heater is a just a diesel (guess fuel oil) boiler with water radiators in the rooms. Quite commom around here apparently.

This is for my house in Portugal, thats why I was quoted in Euros.

The house has 190sqm and it is an isolated house, negative temperatures are very rare (a week a year and it -2/-3) .

thanks for the help

taz24
25-11-2006, 12:08 PM
Diesel with water heater is a just a diesel (guess fuel oil) boiler with water radiators in the rooms. Quite commom around here apparently.

This is for my house in Portugal, thats why I was quoted in Euros.

The house has 190sqm and it is an isolated house, negative temperatures are very rare (a week a year and it -2/-3) .

thanks for the help


OK I see now. I did not realise it was for Portugal. What you have said now makes sense.
You realy do need to sit down with the person or persons who have done the quotation.
I my opinion if you have the opportunity to go for a heat pump then this would be the sensible option. It may be more expensive to start but you will be better in the long term. Just think if in a couple of years what would happen to the price of fuel oil if the middle east kicks off again. And in 15 years time there may not be any left so you would have to change again.
With properly sourced and correctly instaled heat pumps the pipe work and things would be good for 100 years You will only then have to replace the pump itself every 10 to 15 years or so. 100 years is a long time1 how long do you plan living there?;)

My oppinions only but anyone who has the option of fitting heatpump should jump at the chance.

Cheers taz.

Ps Get them to confirm the KW for you house. Your first figure seems high to me and would make a slight differance to the price.

taz24
25-11-2006, 12:15 PM
I have been thinking of fitting an air sourced ducted air heatpump in my house. It would cost about £1000 for me to source and install but then I would be able to run cheap heating in the winter months.
Has anyone else retrofitted the heating this way.

Cheers taz.

Slim R410a
25-11-2006, 01:32 PM
Last December I fitted 2No. Mitsi Elec puhz71's with 2No. ducted fan coils in the loft of a bungalow.
We used solid spiral duct with flexible at the ends and basically had a grille into each room, the lounge having three, then two return air grilles in the hallway.
It resulted in the customer ripping out the central heating, and also installing an electric hot water heater.
The results were fantastic, they only have to have it on low fan speed and 20deg.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Glynne106/Picture001-1.jpg

taz24
25-11-2006, 02:06 PM
Last December I fitted 2No. Mitsi Elec puhz71's with 2No. ducted fan coils in the loft of a bungalow.
We used solid spiral duct with flexible at the ends and basically had a grille into each room, the lounge having three, then two return air grilles in the hallway.
It resulted in the customer ripping out the central heating, and also installing an electric hot water heater.
The results were fantastic, they only have to have it on low fan speed and 20deg.


Thats exactly the thing I was thinking of. I live in a dormer bungalow and although access will not be simple I will be able to get to all the rooms. Thanks for the pic (nice install:) ).
Did you size up exactly or have you allowed for variables.
Cheers taz.

Slim R410a
25-11-2006, 02:35 PM
The best part was using 9" cable tray for two sets of pipework and mains cables in someones loft!:D
Havn't got any pics of the loft.
Not too sure about the sizing as I just installed back then but was probably along the lines of 120w/m2 for each room excluding the hallway.
If I were to do it again though I'd use Daikin as both indoor and outdoor units are alot smaller, quieter and also we had to install tank pumps as the Mitsi fan coils just have a drip tray, no lift pump.

taz24
25-11-2006, 02:52 PM
.

Nice install. Why have you used 2 unistrut for the feet. Is it for technical reasons or purly asthetic.

Cheers taz.

Slim R410a
25-11-2006, 03:06 PM
No reason, just had them left over from a job, would normally use single cantelevers, doubles on heavier kit. i.e. twin fan condensers.

Birds
25-11-2006, 04:41 PM
[QUOTE=Slim R410a;54643]Last December I fitted 2No. Mitsi Elec puhz71's with 2No. ducted fan coils in the loft of a bungalow.
We used solid spiral duct with flexible at the ends and basically had a grille into each room, the lounge having three, then two return air grilles in the hallway.

Hi Slim 410A
Interested in your use of solid spiral. I assume they use it for cooling as well. If so, is there not a problem with condensation in the ducting. I am confused about this as we always use insulated flexible, but I have noticed on a lot of commercial systems like showrooms etc that they use solid spiral without insulation, or it looks like its not insulated maybe a special type of spiral.Or maybe there's not a problem with condensation in metal ducting at all. Any comments would be appreciated.

Birds

PS tried wrapping the part of previous post but did not work any ideas

Slim R410a
25-11-2006, 05:14 PM
All of the spiral was insulated with 25mm duct wrap! Then insulated flex at the ends. lol! Otherwise, yes, there wouid be a slight condensation problem in the summer!

Spiral that is installed within the conditioned space i.e when you see it 'on show' like you said, does not have to be insulated as condensation will not occur due to the low temperature differance.

frank
26-11-2006, 08:15 PM
PS tried wrapping the part of previous post but did not work any ideas

Use the Quote button on the bottom right of the original post, then delete all the words between the brackets you don't want to be seen. Make sure that you do not delete the square brackets.

Birds
26-11-2006, 10:03 PM
Use the Quote button on the bottom right of the original post, then delete all the words between the brackets you don't want to be seen. .

Like this!

Thanks Frank

frank
27-11-2006, 06:51 PM
Way to go Birds :)

Another satisfied customer :D