Shortage of Engineers

[Stuart]

I have been a Heating engineer for 15 years, & about 12 months ago decided that air conditioning is the future of heating & cooling for any thing above domestic use in this country.
After finding appropriate courses, attending & paying for them myself (because employers are nervous incase employees leave).I now find it virtually imposible to get a chance anywhere.
When attending interviews I have been told I dont have the experience.....
Anyone got any ideas..:confused:

[frank]

What sort of courses have you attended Stuart?? What qualifications have you achieved? Any work experience?

[herefishy]

Stuart...... When you walk in for the interview.... walk in with your toolbox (make sure it's a nice one and no crappy tools in it). When you Introduce yourself to the prospective employer say,

"My name is (Stuart), I want to work."

[Stuart]

I have attended Refrigeration Service & installation courses
Refrigerant handling C&G 2078
VRF system course with Fujitsu in London.
Minimal site experience. Just running pipes for Air conditioning units.
Plenty of experience fitting pipes just not refrigerant....Thats the problem.

[herefishy]

.....see above.....

[Stuart]

Any employers out there looking for engineers. I am available for work,willing,keen & most important commited to doing a good job correctly. Giving 100%

[Dan]

Herefishy's advice is right on, Stuart. If you have pipefitting background make sure you sell that qualification as well, based on your understanding of traps and risers and takeoffs, etc.

If you walked into my office, neatly dressed in working clothes carrying a good assortment of "first visit" tools, you would certainly catch my attention in a favorable way when you said "I want to work." That kind of flash works well with me, anyway.

Dan

[herefishy]

That is my "wet dream". If someone came into my office, ready to go, and stated simply that they "WANTED" to work, I simply say.... "You're hired".

This is opposed to, how much I get paid?, what insurance do I get?, how many days off do I get? Are my holidays paid? How are you going to train me? I.......I.......I......I..., get out of here!!!!!!


No one's done it yet.

[Dan]

LOL. Same here!

[herefishy]

I may be at a job site, and some kid says to me, "Hey, what you're doin' is really cool! I've been thinkin' about refrigeration, so I was goin' to go to one of those tech schools. Which one do you recommend?".

I tell the kid, "Take the money that you're goin' to spend on the tech school, and buy a box and some tools, instead. When you get your tools, go in for the interview (with them), set the tools down, and tell the fellow 'I want to work.'", I tell the kid that, " I have never hired anyone fresh out of a tech school that I didn't fire within three months. If you came to me out of a tech school, my first impression would be that you were too lazy to just get out and work, so you went to tech school to goof off".

[zolar1]

herefishy
Moderator

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 194

That is my "wet dream". If someone came into my office, ready to go, and stated simply that they "WANTED" to work, I simply say.... "You're hired".

This is opposed to, how much I get paid?, what insurance do I get?, how many days off do I get? Are my holidays paid? How are you going to train me? I.......I.......I......I..., get out of here!!!!!!


No one's done it yet.

I WANT TO WORK, but there's a slight commuting problem.....I live in Cincinnati Ohio.

[zolar1]

PS I don't work for peanuts. Fair wage for fair work.

[Abe]

Pay peanuts, you get monkeys, or so the saying goes

If someone wants to work, and has an interest in that work, and is willing to learn in his time the theory, and coupled with the practical, then thats the guy for you

And lets face it, if you start out at the bottom rung.........expect to get paid very little in the beginning, the employer is taking a chance with you, offering you the opportunity

For employers too, be fair on the guy as well, give him a decent time with you, make it an enjoyable experience for him and teach him. One good turn deserves another, that guy to whom you gave the chance may prove to be a bonus for you one day

[herefishy]

Originally posted by Fridgetech
...you're all claiming to be experts on both applying a Victorian thinking system.
Sorry guys, just because you never figured out how to start the Porsche it doesn't mean a bicycle is the best means of transport :)


Marc, I don't know who is proclaiming any expertise. In regard to techy abilities or knowledge, Stuart has expressly indicated that he has yet to gain that experience (no keys to the Porsche), and furhtermore is desirous of the opportunity to obtain or experience it.

Therefore, all Stuart is riding in on is a bicycle. We understand that driving the Porsche is the objective, however you must ride the bicycle to the bank to get the loan. So we are merely suggesting that the bicycle be cleaned and polished and the tires properly inflated in order to convince Mr. Banker, that since Stuart demonstrates some sense of concientiousness regarding his (bicycle), that perhaps approving the loan on the Porsche may very well be a good bet!!

And, what? I guess because we are merely humans ourselves, that we inherantly have a lack of understanding of human nature?

I provided my insight regarding Stuart's endeavours to enlighten him as to the possible "human nature" of a prospective employer (being myself such). Even (if) I am an idiot, and don't know anything about what I'm doing (or human nature), I am an employer and nonetheless there are many like me in the industry, of which Stuart may encounter. You know, the loan officer (Banker) isn't necessarily a wealthy guy!

[herefishy]

Marc, I know.... I say tomatoe......................

I think what you're getting at , is that you wouldn't work for a dumb*ss.

Now, I say this with all due respect, and furthermore great admiration for you, and am relying on your understanding of the point at hand (being that you have expressed that you have no interest in it anyway)...

...That if you went to the dumb*ss for a job, he wouldn't recognize your techy understanding (knowledge), and your arrogance (personality typology) as beneficial to the success of any (company). :)

As such, I perceive your humor. :D

But, perhaps you illustrate the point that I intended.... that here you can have a fellow who is full of all the knowledge in the world, and has all the answers at hand, but is willing to contribute NOTHING to the group (or the thread) but to criticize and humiliate the stupid people which surround him (who might even be signing his paycheck!:D).


LOL.

[Abe]

Hello Guys

Sorry, been away for a few days, but catching up on discussions.......funny , but I work with this guy who has no paper qualifications, never been to college, and HE THINKS HE KNOWS IT ALL!!!

He is one of those mechanically minded guys, good at working problems out, but on some issues where I have been to college and learnt the scientific stuff, both at college and at school, I can understand the fundamentals whereas this guy cant. And it drives me CRAZY

I give you an example, he sets his pressure switches to cut off the compressor in deep vacuum on a pump down system. Around 20 HG. I say it has got to cut out above atmospheric so it doesnt draw in moisture, air if there is a leak.

He opens a system to atmosphere and still think the refrigerant is lingering inside and its okay to connect everthing up and no need to vacuum system.

At least those who go to college LEARN something and understand basic scientific facts. Not this wise ass

Me, I would hire a guy who had qualifications, loved refrigeration, enjoyed his work, and also strives for the good things in life, and we would work together to enrich the both of us.

So if a guy came to me with a toolbox in his hand , looking sheepish and says, Gissa job?? I would not hire him until I tested his mettle, his persona, his psychology, his technical knowledge, his acumen, his confgeniality, and the whole kabumb, if he was a good all rounded social amimal then he gets the job.

Would you buy something if it just comes to you pleading to be bought??

No, you look for quality, standards, price...........Whats different here??

[herefishy]

Originally posted by Stuart
I have been a Heating engineer for 15 years, & about 12 months ago decided that air conditioning is the future of heating & cooling for any thing above domestic use in this country.
After finding appropriate courses, attending & paying for them myself (because employers are nervous incase employees leave).I now find it virtually imposible to get a chance anywhere.
When attending interviews I have been told I dont have the experience.....
Anyone got any ideas..:confused:

I just thought that I would iterate the starting post, so everyone could be reminded what the subject was. :)

[zolar1]

Sometimes people digress from the initial posting of the thread. It happens, but that shouldn't make the discussion less enjoyable or diminish it's potential value, should it?

I had a similar experience to that of the initial post when I got out of the US Navy.
I had qualifications necessary to be hired into an entry level position at many places. The same old excuses were given me over and over again - no civilian experience or over/under qualified for the job. Thinking back some 16+ years, I feel that they (the employers) were looking for somebody that fits their profile needs. Apparently, serving in the US Armed Forces, protecting their freedoms and rights (voluntarily I might add) didn't amount to a hill of beans. I couldn't buy a job if I wanted to. It took me about 6 months of being unemployed before I got ANY job. It wasn't what I wanted, but at least it put food on the table for my wife and baby at the time.

Now it seems that employers don't want to train anyone beyond the administrative requirements of their company, and fully expect a potential employee to automatically 'know it all' so they don't have to spend a dime on them.

Perhaps, you could work under your classification and abilities for a company that does have the job you really want, then beg, borrow, and steal your way into getting them to take a chance on you after you have proven your value to them.

More following........

[zolar1]

You see, companies that refuse to spend money training are those companies that will can your butt without warning or cause at their first whim.

And perhaps they are right. They won't spend the time and money training someone because they are neferious. If they did train someone, then as soon as the employee could find a better job, they would haul outta there at warp speed. I couldn't blame them either.

So, for myself, I will be self taught as much as possible, gain what experience I can along the way, and eventually challenge any prospective employer to test my waters, so to speak.

I am new to most of this, but I do have drive, talent, and a willingness to learn, as well as an RSES Universal refrigerant license.

Even Bill Gates started somewhere............

[Mike Hopkins]

Aiyub,
You are right in starting out with looking for the good people first.
You can go out and find just about anyone to turn a wrench, but find someone who cares about why that wrench is turned and what happens when it's turned + a good personality and maybe you have a keeper. Take care of them and treat them right, give them confidence, training, and support, + a little extra wage every now and then and you will have a dedicated employee.
Dog and badger them, keep them in the closet and feed them roaches and they will not prosper. You will suffer as well as them.
In Stuart's case, he will eventually find an employer to give him a chance. Stuart , you are in a bit of predicament, having good heating talent and wanting to do AC\ Refrigeration work, especially in TX. You may have to go a little backwards to get the experience but then with the talents you have gain more in the end once you learn the AC game and the employer who hires you will reap the benefits. I started out repairing refrigerators, freezers, window units, etc. Went to college for 2 years and came back and installed, repaired and serviced boilers. My employer saw what I could do and put me on AC\ Refrigeration, training me all the while. I had the basics, he just let me do the work and from there is where I really learned, more than any college or tech school could ever teach me. Not to say that schooling or specific training doesn't help. More like it is essential. Those that are driven and interested have the true desire to train themselves, constantly. It is an inherent trait to better oneself.
Why else would we spend so much time posting on these forums?
Good luck with it, and tell those that tell you, you don't have the experience, I do, but of a somewhat different nature and I'm a quick learner just give me a chance and I'll show you. Tell them you'll show up on time, do the best you can, be honest, and are willing to learn. And do just that.

Mike Hopkins

[reggie]

Stuart i understand your frustration so ill give you a piece of advice from my experience within the industry over the last 10 years.
Any firm that you work for or try to obtain employment with will be an identical box with a different colour. You will find employment but only with a boss who wants to pay you little money or even rip you off. Sure he'll make out hes doing you a favour by training you etc but when all said and done you as a man who gets his hands dirty will be treated like ****. However if you can stick this fledgling period out and gain as much knowledge as possible you can move on to greater things.
Who knows one day you may have a specialised skill that your company depends on and if that day arrives you may be treated even fairly.
Capitalism is in every human being myself included and if someone can get away with paying you the minimum or not employing you at all, they will do. They will give you as little training as possible and only enough to educate you for their benefit.
My advice to you is read as many books as possible, get as much experience as possible and even finance your own training courses.
Your day will come.

[Abe]

Good on yer Zolar........long may we digress and stoop at a tangent, as long as its enjoyable, healthy and entertaining........no brownie points here for being staid and straightlaced and proper!!!

So, lets enjoy ourselves!!!

And, I cant resist adding:

This is a tough world, where dog eats dog........life is not one big salvation army. You want a job heh?? Well, just like no blonde suddenly appears from nowhere and plant a hot passionate kiss on your lips in the high street, well no one is going to give you a job either

The moral...........YOU NEED SOMETHING

Whether its long silky legs, attrativeness, skill, qualifications, whatever

If you fullfill a CRITERIA and you meet a supply and demand situation, are at the right place right time, or fate, chance, good presentation, whatever.........

ITS UP TO YOU

You beg, borrow, steal, flirt, show your stuff, argue,get on your bike do what you have to

I know, Life is a bitch......, life is unfair, and for some its too easy......but we are here, make the most of it

Thats my tuppence worth today

Terra

[zolar1]

It's too bad I can't remember any of my Heat Transfer and Fluid Flow from my military training so long ago...sigh

Can someone post the Laws of Thermodynamics in a new thread?
Formulas would be of benefit too.

[Gibson]

Keep it simple... If you want a job in the refrigeration industry and have heating experience.... Do your homework and sell yourself.

[superheat]

It has been said, but get a job that you are overqualified for and move up the ladder as fast as possible. You might have to change companies to get where you want. As an unemployed engineer, I was tired of looking for work. I took a job as a technician. I fired several bosses before I got where I am: HAPPY. I make more money now than the jobs I applied for back then. Engineering jobs are a pain to get. They think that $30,000 a year is alot of money and hold you on the line for several months before they give the job to somebody else. As a service tech, half the companies out there are looking for people that have a clean driving record and some HVAC skills. It is hard for an engineer to not stand out in that crowd. :cool:

[Stuart]

:(
That is my "wet dream". If someone came into my office, ready to go, and stated simply that they "WANTED" to work, I simply say.... "You're hired".

Have Done this on several occasions to no avail.......

Am now working as a service & maintenance engineer.......but with limited A/C work

Thanks for the advice all.:)