Refrigeration conversions

[clivet]

Hi Chaps
I am the service manger of a small but national organisation. We are looking at our operations and proceedures relating to the replacement of R22. I am of the opinion that when the R22 is removed an industrial system (or any other one for that matter) should be pressure tested using a mixture of OFN and Helium as the molecules of the new refrigerants are smaller than that of R22. i'm a bit surprised to find out from our OFN supplier (which is quite a large organisation) that there is currently not really an industry demand in the UK for a ready mixed product in large cylinders. Are we the only people thinking this way?:cool:

[NoNickName]

Why removing R22 from an existing and working plant? I think the capital expenditure of such a test with the precious helium must be compared with the residual value of the chilling plant and the expected remaining life time.
Besides, as far as I'm concerned, I don't see a rush in converting R22 plants in anything else.

[Brian_UK]

The high cost of helium is the main reason for the lack of supply for leak testing.

As NoNick said, why are you thinking of removed a working gas ? I would be investigating the costs etc of replacing the equipment with new when the times comes.

When it is no longer possible to service R22 kit then the kit itself will have had quite a reasonable lifespan and quite likely be due for replacement anyway.

[clivet]

I think the the time has come, we wont be able to use virgin R22 in the UK after 1/1/2010 so we cant afford to wait until then to do something about it, thats only 39 months away. in the meantime the price of R22 will inevitably rise as the reducing production quotas limit supply. Some installations will be replaced that is true, but if I were the owner of a system with 4 tons of R22 in it I think i would prefer to spend 70k on replacing thye refrigerant reather than a million or so for a new system. There are still a huge number of industrial plants on R22 that simply wont be replaced with new by 2010. Is no one else considering this?

[NoNickName]

thats only 39 months away.

Customers will consider the issue in 38 months time. So there's plenty of time.



Is no one else considering this?

Customers don't. Why should I?

[taz24]

I think the the time has come, we wont be able to use virgin R22 in the UK after 1/1/2010
There are still a huge number of industrial plants on R22 that simply wont be replaced with new by 2010. Is no one else considering this?

I think that you are right and I also think that a lot of small companies are going to go to the wall when the issue of R22 acctualy comes to a head. I think that the cost involved and the fact that nothing will easily replace R22 in a flooded system is going to make it too expensive. There are going to be a lot of companies out there that are barely making a profit so the investment to replace R22 will be prohibative.

Cheers taz.

[Peter_1]

And the drop-ins for R22 are already available. So?

Why you need helium for leak and pressure testing?
You can do it with only OFN.

How will you trace the possible leaks with Helium?
Sniffers aren't commercialy avialable fo Helium and I also don't see what's wrong with the present used methods?

[taz24]

And the drop-ins for R22 are already available. So?


You are right peter but there are few good replacements for flooded systems and a lot of small food processing companies use flooded evaps on R22.

I do not see much hope for them, except large investments.

Cheers taz.

[clivet]

Has anyone done any trials on flooded systems? We have a number of clients that are aware of the need to change but dont want to be a guinea pig. We have quite a number of large systems running on R417a but nothing as yet flooded. As for the use of helium we use it as a pressure testing medium as the molecules in heium are smaller than nitrogen, we have done this for a number of years when pressure testing R404a systems as OFN wont find the leaks.
I think the sentiment that "customers wont worry about it so why should I" is simply burying your head in the sand. This change is coming, it is coming soon, it will effect everyone in the refrigeration industry in the UK, and if you are a contractor with maintenance obligations you wont be thanked for not having the answers on the 1st Jan 2010, The other consiideration is the availbility of good engineers to carry out this work, we struggle to get good ones now and thats without the extra work generated by a programe like this. Thats why we are doing it now.