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Mike6994
10-10-2006, 05:52 PM
I've been asked to quote to move some old condensing units, originally working on R12.
Over the years, these have been re-charged with R409a.
As I consider this to be a major modification, I feel the system should now be ungraded to work on either R134a or R404a. Basically the plant is knackered, but the consultants insist the old plant be moved and re-charged with R409a.
My belief is this is against current regulations, can any one confirm this please. Thanks Mike

Argus
10-10-2006, 08:19 PM
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As I read it, R 409A is a mixture of three HCFCs, so perfectly legal (for the time being) in the EU.

Move away. Charge the man an arm and a leg.

taz24
11-10-2006, 12:16 AM
Hiya mate.
409 is R22 R124 and R142 at 60% 25% and 15% respectively so for to time being you are ok to use and continue to use till about 2010 or 2011. I personaly don't mind 409 because it is one of the better drop in gases but I see your point about updating the kit. Try talking to them and explain the cost effectiveness of upgradeing and if you get no joy then put a good price in.

Cheers taz.:o

Argus
12-10-2006, 09:48 AM
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Not sure why you deleted your post, Mike, but as R 409A is a blend of HCFCs it has to obey the same rules as R22.

The chapter and verse on this is in the ODS regulations, 2037/2000, Article 5.
At the present time this means that you can continue using these substances for service until the end of 2009, and recycled substances until the end of 2014, assuming that they are still available. The cost is likely to rise as they become scarcer and stocks are depleted. There is also a possibility that these dates may change with the timescale shortened – I think that the European Commission's technical committee is considering this possibility.

It would only be illegal to reinstall if it still contained a CFC. You are free to move and reinstall the equipment, but you have to question the economics of the exercise in the light of the availability of refrigerant and its age and reliability.

I suggest that you have a duty to inform the client of the facts with your recommendations, but if he insists on going ahead, make sure you get paid!


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