Rubbing alcohol.. the horror

[Tycho]

Upon reading this (http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5952&highlight=rubbing+alcohol) post I got a nasty flashback to a job I was on about two years ago. :)

on our first generation spray RSW chillers we had some problem with oil sticking to the chiller pipes, causing a loss of heat transfer and thus the compressor cut out on low pressure long before it should.

A new oil make was introduced and we had to clean the inside of the chillers, to get rid of all residue of the old type.

What better to use as a pre cleaner than alcohol :D
first run, I charged the chiller with 100 gallons of 96% pure booze (with vomit inducing chemicals (not that I tried :)) and left the pump running overnight...

then two more of our engineers came to do a job on a ship nearby and we ended up on the same hotel, on a friday night... need I say more?

fast forward till around midnight, me, two others, ships engineer and the shipowner... thoroughly soaked in just about everything the bar served...

saturday.. sometime in the afternoon, after spending about an hour getting out of bed while trying not to move my head to much, all three of us went to the ship for dinner...

My plan had all along been to check how the cleaning was coming along... now, imagine having the worst possible hangover, the real nasty one where your whole body is shaking and you have a headache that anything in a drugstore couldnt possibly cure... now, enter a room where technical booze has been evaporating all night long (it smells like bad moonshine), and you have to open up the system to clean the filters...

I was the story of the day when I got back up to the mess for dinner... :D

I couldnt get any of the other four guys to go down there no matter how hard I tried tho :D

Not a thing I'd like to do again... ever in my life :)

[winfred.dela]

I believe alcohol should not be considered as pipe cleaner not only because it is expensive but also cleaning copper pipes (brand new and old ones) can be done easily by a damped clean cloth running inside it.
But sometimes we have to answer some question by non practitioners, so we offer some suggestion and may also ask a question. But that is all we need to do so we would not sound too smart. :rolleyes:

Your story is quite interesting and i found myself smiling remembering the old days: getting as much alcohol as i can inside my system until i cannot walk straight. :)

Although this maybe off tangent of the alcohol issue and its horror, may i asked:

What is the smallest RSW you may have designed or installed or maintained or just saw?

Before you answer, pls allow me to give you a backgrounder.

Am a ref guy in a small city in Mindanao and been doing a pro bono design/install/study of BEST RSW for a 40 ft fishing boat (actually it's just a wooden banca with bamboo outrigger-pls don't laugh). :D

Currently, most fishermen (usually unlettered) just bring Block Ice and they usually run out of ice after some two weeks in the fishing ground.

So here i am just trying to learn and help fishermen and yet still spending for another prototype (after 3 design flops).

Any insight and suggestion for my 4th mini RSW prototype will be greatly appreciated.

Nice thread you have here and hope we will read a lot of post on this thread.

Thanks in advance ;)

[Tycho]

Hi :)

Yes, alcohol is expensive, the one I used had vomit inducing chemicals mixed in so it was 50 times cheaper than drinking alcohol.
The alcohol was just the first step, we use another chemical afterwards to get out what the alcohol didnt get, but it was very expensive, so it was cheaper to use alcohol first, so we didnt have to use so much of the expensive stuff :)


The smallest RSW plant I have commissioned is 350Kw (smallest one in our range).
http://www.mmctendos.no/cgi-bin/webadm.cgi?gid=2104&c=1114
(I'm using our product range as examples, as that is the range I know, and am very comfortable with.)

From what you describe, I would think they would be better suited with what we call a pre-cooler, or maybe liquid-ice.

The pre-cooler is a mini RSW chiller we use to cool down the water used during fish processing in large factory trawlers.

Product range of pre-coolers and liquid ice:
http://www.optimar.is/optimar_prod_optim_ice.htm

Liquid-ice demo movie:
http://www.optimar.is/images/optimar_DEMO.wmv (hope you dont mind the cheesy music :D

Maybe these will give you some ideas :)

[frank]

I believe alcohol should not be considered as pipe cleaner not only because it is expensive but also cleaning copper pipes (brand new and old ones) can be done easily by a damped clean cloth running inside it.


2 questions come to mind here.

The pipe in question is a 1/4" - how do you get a dampened cloth down one of these?

Doesn't the dampened cloth (I assume water) contaminate the pipe?

[winfred.dela]

A damped clean cloth (a little larger than 1/4"dia) tied with a small GI wire can run inside a straighten 1/4"dia copper pipe. This will remove any small particles inside the pipe.
Of course, after installation of pipe, the technician will use an N2 for flushing then vacuuming will remove any trace of moisture in the pipe.

[US Iceman]

I was just thinking about Frank's comment on the small bore tubing. Depending on the length of the tubing and the observable straightness I may have a suggestion.

A 1/4" OD tube has about the same size ID as the OD of a 22 caliber pistol cartridge. If the person has a gun cleaning kit, you could use the cleaning rod with the 22 caliber adapter and a cleaning swatch from the kit. Soak the cloth swatch in refrigerant oil and clean to your satisfaction.

Of course by the time you are done doing this, it would be cheaper to purchase a small length of tubing from a friend who does refrigeration work.


This thread also brings up an interesting question to the ammonia guys out there. How do you clean the inside of the steel pipe before it is installed? I'll share one way I have done this, if someone goes first.;)

[Tycho]

A 1/4" OD tube has about the same size ID as the OD of a 22 caliber pistol cartridge.

:eek:
I was half expecting a suggestion of firing a round through the pipe :D and thinking you might suggest that that would also straighten out the pipe :D



This thread also brings up an interesting question to the ammonia guys out there. How do you clean the inside of the steel pipe before it is installed? I'll share one way I have done this, if someone goes first.;)

We buy our pipes sealed, the company doing the welding installation inspects every pipe before using it to ensure there is no rust or any other contamination.

I have used a "honing" brush on shorter lengths of pipe during repair work... it looks like a toilet brush, only the handle is somewhat flexible, and the tips of the "brush" has metal balls attached. the brush itself is driven by a handheld drill, wouldnt work well with pipelegths of over
3 feet tho.

I have also heard of firing foam caps, or something similar, through the pipes using compressed air.

Both of these are used before the pipes are installed...

During installation, you have to either use welders you know will keep things clean...

Or you use your business card and give them small papercuts on the ears, best place is the soft skin at the bottom of the U at the top where it connects to the head, if you see they are doing sloppy work :D

[winfred.dela]

Tycho:
The smallest RSW plant I have commissioned is 350Kw (smallest one in our range).


That's quite huge for what am thinking of doing.
However, learned a lot from the links, Thank you Tycho. :)

[US Iceman]

I was half expecting a suggestion of firing a round through the pipe :D and thinking you might suggest that that would also straighten out the pipe :D


Now that I see you understand how things are done we can proceed.:p



I have used a "honing" brush on shorter lengths of pipe during repair work... it looks like a toilet brush, only the handle is somewhat flexible, and the tips of the "brush" has metal balls attached. the brush itself is driven by a handheld drill, wouldnt work well with pipelegths of over 3 feet tho.


You stole my idea.:D

That is exactly the way I have done it also. Works great, but it can be a little dusty.

I used some 3/8" threaded pipe to attach to the brush for lengths greater than what you describe though. We were working with full lengths.



I have also heard of firing foam caps, or something similar, through the pipes using compressed air.


That's a new one for me, although I have seen something similar used on oil pipe lines. They call it a pig.



Or you use your business card and give them small papercuts on the ears, best place is the soft skin at the bottom of the U at the top where it connects to the head, if you see they are doing sloppy work :D


I like your style of personnel management. I'm sure you are ready to move to the gold-plated corner office now.;)

[Tycho]

That's quite huge for what am thinking of doing.
However, learned a lot from the links, Thank you Tycho. :)

That's why I also suggested the precoolers and the liquid ice as a more suitable solution, the smallest machine I've seen is maybe a 4 feet square. :)

and you are very much welcome :)

[winfred.dela]

US Iceman
Of course by the time you are done doing this, it would be cheaper to purchase a small length of tubing from a friend who does refrigeration work.


In our part of the world, labor is a lot cheaper than a piece of copper pipe. Thus, we re use whatever we can.

But, for projects with consultant's that requires brand new pipes, we always use new pipes. Still, we do that damped cloth and wire cleaning prior to pipe layout. :)

[Tycho]

I used some 3/8" threaded pipe to attach to the brush for lengths greater than what you describe though. We were working with full lengths.


hmmm, never thought of that :) luckily I only do small repairs when it comes to welding. You need to be a certified welder to do any welding work on a ref plant here, but I can sneak in a quick repair if needed... the trick is to do the job "as if" you were certified ;)



That's a new one for me, although I have seen something similar used on oil pipe lines. They call it a pig.



That's probably what I meant :) never seen it done on ref pipes




I like your style of personnel management. I'm sure you are ready to move to the gold-plated corner office now.;)

hehehe, it all lies in the threat of doing it :)

Generally I'm a streak of sunshine :)

[US Iceman]

...the trick is to do the job "as if" you were certified.


Is this the same as pretending to be a service engineer?:rolleyes:

[pendlesteve]

So how do you dispose of the oil/alcohol mixture in an environmentaly friendly way?

[Tycho]

Is this the same as pretending to be a service engineer?:rolleyes:

Almost... it's more work pretending to be a service engineer, people want you to do stuff for them all the time once you start pretending :D

[Tycho]

So how do you dispose of the oil/alcohol mixture in an environmentaly friendly way?

Just dump it into the nearest ditch ;)

or you could send it to a specialist company for destruction like we do :)