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Alistair
19-09-2006, 05:57 PM
Hello,

My ambition is to become a self employed refrigeration technician.

I'm hoping if I paid a fee / financial agreement, a one man operation would consider training somebody like myself up whilst on the job. Or I would consider buying a small refrigeration business if alot of training was agreed before changeover.

I'm considering college or a private course, but I still think without experience i'm going to struggle ever getting a foot on the ladder as most jobs require it.

I can travel anywhere in the UK

Alistair

Renato RR
22-09-2006, 10:53 AM
Why you want to work something you dont know?Maybe that isnt for you?Maybe it is but how will you know before you try?

Renato

taz24
03-10-2006, 10:57 AM
You will need a formal qualification of minimum level 2 posible level 3 by next Janurary. All engineers will because of the new F gas directive. So no mater how much experience you gain you will need gas handling qualifications and a recognised qual in fridge.

Cheers taz.

Argus
03-10-2006, 12:38 PM
You will need a formal qualification of minimum level 2 posible level 3 by next Janurary. All engineers will because of the new F gas directive. So no mater how much experience you gain you will need gas handling qualifications and a recognised qual in fridge.

Cheers taz.

Really? Where does it say that?

.

winfred.dela
03-10-2006, 07:02 PM
I'm hoping if I paid a fee / financial agreement, a one man operation would consider training somebody like myself up whilst on the job. Or I would consider buying a small refrigeration business if alot of training was agreed before changeover.


Another option:

You can also talk to one of the best in the trade and tell him that you can be his slave for a certain period of time. Maybe even sign a contract. :rolleyes:

Then when you're already good, which will of course depends on your capacity to learn, you can then start your own. :)

taz24
04-10-2006, 03:38 PM
Really? Where does it say that?

.


You canot work on refrigerants without a level 2 qual. The F gas directive is in force now but the recomendations as to what qual people will need has not been finalised as yet (Feb 2007). The key part to F gas is the statement that all equipment over 3kg will require an inspection by a qualified person. That is the grey area the term inspection makes it more than just a leak test which any one can do. They are trying to up the levels of fridge engineers.

Cheers taz.

Argus
04-10-2006, 03:46 PM
Level 2 in what?

taz24
04-10-2006, 06:13 PM
Level 2 in what?

Level 2 in fridge.
C&G 2078 and CITB quals in chargeing and recovering refrigerants is level 2.
Industry tend to agree that NVQ is the minimum standard to work in the industry now. If you have a skill card or if you want to aply for a skill card then the minimum requirement is level 2.

flintshire freeze
04-10-2006, 09:00 PM
i have city guilds 2078 safe handling
30yrs experiance but no formal qualifications how do i stand

frank
04-10-2006, 09:11 PM
C&G 2078 (handling refrigerants) or the CITB equivalent (sp) does not equate to a "level 2" qualification.

I assume you are refering to a NVQ Level 2 ?

flintshire freeze
04-10-2006, 09:16 PM
cheers frank
could u recomend what i need 2 do in order 2 gain the new recurements

frank
04-10-2006, 09:30 PM
cheers frank
could u recomend what i need 2 do in order 2 gain the new recurements
As far as I'm aware (and Argus will correct me) you only need safe handling qualifications to handle refrigerants under the new Fgas requirements. You do not necessarily need a qualification in fridge.

flintshire freeze
04-10-2006, 10:06 PM
hi guys
what do i need 2 do by next year to be ok can i obtain a skillcard with 30 yrs experiance

flintshire freeze
04-10-2006, 10:09 PM
cheers frank
just got ur reply all the best

Argus
05-10-2006, 09:29 AM
.

Thereís no need to correct you, Frank, you are right.

NVQ level 2 is just another step in the muddled quasi-mandatory qualification trail in this country and whilst it goes hand in hand with the handling qualifications, the refrigerant safe handling qualifications are a stand alone competency.

Itís also worth pointing out at this stage something else that C&G 2078 and the CITB certificates are not. They are not strictly a course of instruction. As I understand it they are primarily an assessment of what the candidate already knows. Granted, many assessors will provide training but itís worth people going into this with their eyes open because itís an expensive business to take a gamble on if youíre not likely to be successful. Again I think that it is inappropriate for a trainer to offer a qualification assessment on the course heís just given you Ė a conflict of interest springs to mind.

As far as the F Gas Regulation (824/2006) is concerned, (itís is a European Regulation Ė not a Directive, by the way Ė thereís a huge and fundamental legal difference) member states need to formulate and to notify to the European Commission the minimum qualification levels by the date it takes effect (July 4 2007). This is in Article 5 -1. The ultimate intention is that all the refrigerant handling qualification are interchangeable (not necessarily equal) throughout the EU.

It is assumed that either of the two refrigerant handling qualifications available in the UK will be acceptable for this purpose, as they are already mandated to the ODS Regulations for handling HCFCs, and it is almost certainly likely to be the case, but is doesnít say so in the Regulation.

The F Gas Regulation is concerned only with the prevention of emissions of HFCs and other greenhouse gases, even though itís very nice to read other things into it; refrigerant handling qualifications is just one of the many mechanisms that are used to do that, but thereís a much bigger picture, if you read the words.

At the present time, the safe handling requirements (C&G 2078 and CITB) are only mandatory for handling CFCs and HCFCs under the belated new UK law, with a transition period for full effect until April 9th, 2007.

Just a final warning to Alistair who initiated this interesting thread.
NVQ assessment is geared to supplying employers with suitably trained employees. Please be aware that if you enrol as a private student on a formal NVQ course, part of the course work may involve an assessment of your practical work, and may involve your employerís co-operation. If you are not directly employed thereís a fundamental blockage to you gaining your qualificatoin. This also applies to self employed and foreign students.

Iím uncertain if the UK training authorities have addressed this question yet Ė so some input from someone directly involved in the NVQ area would inform us.


.

taz24
05-10-2006, 11:12 AM
2078 is considered to be a level 2 qual. The focus group for F gas regulation met yesterday and the consensus of oppinion is that, the minimum requirement for sombody to be able to inspect a fridge system over 3kg is a level two. There are rimours that some want it to be a level 3. There is also, or has been at the begining of this year a mad rush for recognised engineers with experience to apply for the Skill card. The Skill card is increasingly being insisted on by large companies for engineers to hold. The skill card up till Jan this year could be claimed by grandad status for the likes of us older engineers but since the cut off date of Jauary 2006 a level 2 minimum level is required to apply for it.

Tony
16-10-2006, 12:54 PM
C&G 2078 does equate to a 'notional' level 2.

I agree it is not NVQ level 2 in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning (C&G 6087) which is the full NVQ.

jamcool
17-10-2006, 10:46 PM
Argus.
Did the NVQ level 2 a few years back as an
international student and with the level 2 the college arranges work experience with companies so you are able to build your portfolio as to moving up the levels,then it becomes more complicated but the long and short is for levels 3 and above you would have to be working in the field and also working on bigger units to help give you the upper hand in gaining the certification.
Thats my interpitation and I'm sticking to it:) :D untill told other wise:o

Gozzy
18-10-2006, 05:44 AM
Out here in Canada you need to have a Journeyman to be part of the team if your owning the business and you don't poses a ticket. Get your hands on the tools and understand what your getting yourself into before going balls deep !!!

Argus
18-10-2006, 09:22 AM
Argus.
Did the NVQ level 2 a few years back as an
international student and with the level 2 the college arranges work experience with companies so you are able to build your portfolio as to moving up the levels,then it becomes more complicated but the long and short is for levels 3 and above you would have to be working in the field and also working on bigger units to help give you the upper hand in gaining the certification.
Thats my interpitation and I'm sticking to it:) :D untill told other wise:o



You're fortunate.

I'm not sure that it's the same across the board for all students.

It was a common complaint with the way that NVQ's were organised and the work experience was structured some while back, as was seen to be slanted toward providing employers with a training platform rather than students with an accessible path to training.


Maybe things have changed.

.

chillyhamster
18-10-2006, 07:02 PM
F-Gas regulations come into force o 7th July 2007, The minimum training / qualification to carry out said inspections do not come into force until 7th July 2008 as is the requirement to receive refrigerants from the suppliers.... Did you know that R22 is only to be suppied to "qualified" operators from December 2006 ????

Talk about the European commission puting the cart before the horse again,, but perhaps the French ate the original horse.

Next update on F-gas is on 25th Oct at the DTI in London for UK op's.

Argus
19-10-2006, 09:11 AM
Next update on F-gas is on 25th Oct at the DTI in London for UK op's.

This is a UK stakeholder's meeting jointly organised by DTI / DEFRA.

They are held regularly about every four months in London.

There are two UK Govt web sites on this subject:
One by DEFRA:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/innovation/sustainability/fgases/page28889.html
This has a new Guidance and FAQ added to it.

The other by DTI that details most of the past work of the Stakeholderís group.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/climatechange/uk/fgas/index.htm

The FAQs will provide an insight into the remaining work to establish the requirements for testing, competence etc. which have yet to be agreed by the European Comission.

Worth reading closely to get the true current picture.

.

Latte
11-02-2011, 02:54 AM
going back on an OLD !!!! thread now. Am i correct in saying that since 2006 you cannot get a skillcard for refrigeration under grandad status so now have to have NVQ2. Assuming also that 2078, 2079 or Care ticket are not enough to get a skillcard