Illegal Installation?

[mick2me]

I received this message...

"Do you know it is ilegal since july 10th this year to install ac equipment if you are not a qualifed engineer."

Can anyone confirm this, and tell me under what UK Regulation?

[John Wood]

The way I understand it is that from July 10th you have to have a handling certificate to handle R22

[mick2me]

The way I understand it is that from July 10th you have to have a handling certificate to handle R22

Thanks John.

[frank]

It won't be illegal for anyone to do the nuts and bolts installation just the refrigerant handling side.

[Andy W]

It should be illegal and the DIY stores should be hung up by their big toes, DIY ers will always have a bash to save a few quid and as we all know refrigeration systems are not be messed with by untrained personal.

[mick2me]

It should be illegal and the DIY stores should be hung up by their big toes, DIY ers will always have a bash to save a few quid and as we all know refrigeration systems are not be messed with by untrained personal.

They do still sell the new Harmonised colour electrical cables, and post a small disclaimer about Part P IEE regs.

So will AC buyers take any notice?

[Big Ed]

This is the Ozone Depleting Substances (Qualifications) Directive. You now need a refrigerant handling qualification to work with HCFCs - so that's R22 for most of us.

However there's a 9 month transitional period so you've got until next April do the course - the C&G 2078 or the CITB Refrigerant Handling.

The same qualifications are likely to be needed for handling HFCs - probably from next year.

No one seems too sure how this will be policed. There's some talk about wholesalers refusing to sell refrigerants to you unless you've got the C&G or CITB card, but that would be voluntary on their part, and it's still just a rumour at the moment....

[Larry2]

One already needs to do the course and pass the exam to buy refrigerants here in the States.

I don't see much harm in a DIY'er bolting a unit up to his wall and setting the outside unit in place, then screwing the precharged lines into the system. His only worry is these systems seem to be of poor quality and his savings is lost when he pays for a call to put it right. Some are smart enough to bend lines without kinking them and others are truely lost. The lost sheep pay for service which costs them more than an install.

[mick2me]

I am doing research on this stuff an received the following information.

"Regarding the question about ac installation you MUST have safe handling of refrigerants qualification by law whether its R22 R134a R407c R404a and especially R410a this is a higher running pressure gas and lethal if not compitent to handle."

Well is it Currently Illegal in the UK?

Though I do agree with the last part of his statement.

[Brian_UK]

From whom did you get this information Mick ? 'cos it's not what I learnt when I did my refresher course earlier this month.

[mick2me]

From whom did you get this information Mick ? 'cos it's not what I learnt when I did my refresher course earlier this month.

Brian I have a bit of a project at the moment, gathering information from buyers, I am getting feedback from the trade as well, though that was not planned. That was one of the replies. I dont know who they are. But would be interested in any legislation that restricts Handling of gas side of the install.

[Brian_UK]

OK Mick, I'll get out my course notes tomorrow and get you some details.

I'm off to bed now, got to get ready for all that exciting work tomorrow.

[Argus]

This is the Ozone Depleting Substances (Qualifications) Directive. You now need a refrigerant handling qualification to work with HCFCs - so that's R22 for most of us.



Quite right.

It is part of the UK implementing Regulations for the EU ODS Regulations 2037 / 2000. Nothing new here; the regulation has been in existence for 6 years and replaced an earlier version from 1995. It?s the one that bans the use of CFCs and phases out HCFCs.

In the UK, DEFRA have been circulating the industry about the new laws since last year;
Web site here. http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/ozone-depleting/index.htm

You can read the new Statutory Instrument here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20061510.htm

The SI is an embarrassment for the UK government who rushed it out in a hurry after threats of infraction proceedings from the EU and cumulative fines because they had omitted to pass the necessary laws limiting the use of ODS to suitably qualified individuals.




The same qualifications are likely to be needed for handling HFCs - probably from next year.

No one seems too sure how this will be policed. There's some talk about wholesalers refusing to sell refrigerants to you unless you've got the C&G or CITB card, but that would be voluntary on their part, and it's still just a rumour at the moment....



This is another piece of almost parallel legislation. The new Fluorinated Gases Regulations Regulation, (EC) No 842/2006 on Certain Fluorinated Greenhouse Gases. Lays it out in Article 5, ?Training and Competence?

?By 4 July 2009 Member States shall ensure that the companies involved in carrying out the activities provided for in Articles 3 and 4 shall only take delivery of fluorinated greenhouse gases where their relevant personnel hold the certificates mentioned in paragraph 2 of this Article.?

The work in paragraph 3 is leakage checking and in paragraph 4, it is recovery and removal of refrigerants. The certificates are either the C&G or the CITB.

Enforcing it is not difficult to envisage.

Wholesalers sell refrigerant in the main to companies who are account holders, who in turn would sign a legal undertaking in their trading agreement that they hold the relevant competencies.

The Member states? governments have a year to provide the necessary legal undertakings in their countries that have immediate effect from the date of taking effect - July 4 2006 -. This will be another SI, outlining the offences and penalties.
Some of the articles like the one above have an introductory delay, in this case three years from entry into force.

Hope this helps. The F Gas Regulation is, in the main, good news for service companies for lots of reasons.

.
________
Honda CB600F (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_CB600F)

[mick2me]

Thanks Argus for the comprehensive reply.

Correct me If I am wrong, but this refers to Handling Ozone Depleting Substances.

Would this extend to Joe Public Vaccing down his system of air, and releasing pre charged gas into the system.

And if that gas is R410, it is supposed not to be Ozone depleting?

[Argus]

Would this extend to Joe Public Vaccing down his system of air, and releasing pre charged gas into the system.



Yes. As I said, there are two bits of legislation. The first is about ODS; CFCs and HCFS. Even a blend of HFCs with one ODS component is covered. The restriction is on anyone without the handling qualification doing anything with the gas.


.

And if that gas is R410, it is supposed not to be Ozone depleting?



The second concerning HFCs (R410A etc) are covered in the new F Gas regulation which came into force this month. The requirements as far as handling qualifications are almost the same.


.
________
smoke kills (http://smokekills.net/)

[mick2me]

So the bottom line is Joe cannot deal with the gas side at all?

Thanks
I am just reading through

Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1510

[mick2me]

Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1510
The Ozone Depleting Substances (Qualifications) Regulations 2006




TABLE OF MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS

Column 1
Column 2
Column 3
Tasks
Equipment
Minimum Qualification
Servicing and maintenance of equipment.
Refrigeration, air conditioning and heat pump equipment which is stationary at all times when in operation.

Commercial and domestic refrigerators and freezers which are stationary at all times when in operation.

Portable refrigeration, air conditioning and heat pump equipment.
(a) City & Guilds Certificate in Handling Refrigerants Scheme 2078

(b) Construction Industry Training Board Safe Handling of Refrigerants Reference 206710

© Crown Copyright 2006

[mick2me]

Well the format didnt paste here too well, but I think we get the idea

[Larry2]

Don't these DIY systems come with the charge in the condensor and the lines aready charged? I've seen lines with a foil seal on the end that is pierced as the fitting is tightened down. Are the DIY systems actually needing evacuation? I think that is beyond ability of most DIY'ers who think soldering is a gluing operation.

Be careful what you wish for in regulations. It usually disadvantages the profession more than anyone else. At least that's how it works here across the pond.

[mick2me]

Larry in the UK I work with Health & Safety Regulations.

The British are very good at making their legislation vague.

The H&S laws read great, about the responsibility of the employer, untill you get to the bit that says "Reasonably paracticable?"

This whole area re DIY fit units with pre gassed piipe which you break a seal may or may not fit into the current legislation.

The other thing is how can they prove it was fitted post 10th July 06, when the legislation came into force?