To flare or not to flare?

[worthington]

has anyone any comments on the latest "fad",ie using sweated components instead of flares?
i can see from a manufacturing point of view why this would be done(cheapness,ozone friendlyness etc) but from a service point of view its a bloody nuisance.
in my experience there are few flare failures that cannot be attributed to poor standards or just sheer lazyness.the usual reasons are
1.an incorrectly formed flare in the first place
2.an overtightened flare nut
3.poor standards by the engineer replacing a component,who doesnt remake the flare.so it work hardens and fails.
4.unsecured or poorly secured pipework . so that the flare fails ,again due to work hardening.
5.failure to apply any lubricant to the flared end,thus causing abrasive wear and eventual failure
all of the above are due basically to poor standards.
am i the only one concerned about the abysmal standards of the majority of service staff?
before anyone thinks that im some chair bound desk wallah,i am and have been for many years a service guy at the sharp end!!

[Prof Sporlan]

The Prof doubts Hamlet would have pondered this question... :)

No doubt the ubiquitous 45° SAE flare connection is destined for obsolescence. Very few OEMs are purchasing refrigeration components with connections other than solder type, with the exception of residential a/c and heat pump systems. Here, the short tube restrictor usually employs a threaded connection.

Other mechanical connections have been used with refrigeration components in the past, e.g., Swagelok, Rotolock, solder and threaded pipe flanges, 37° SAE flare, and various face seal threaded fittings. It's a problem where mechanical fittings that are more effective and foolproof tend to be much more expensive that solder connections.

[subzero*psia]

Personally, I would rather use a sweat connection. If I sweat the connection I know I have greatly reduced the chance of a leak. I also think that sweat connects are much faster than flare connects not to mention the added costs associated with storing different size fittings and types of flare fittings for each application one could come across.

Just my opinion though... not saying it isn't just as good or even better in some instances. I use flares only where I have to though.

[Abe]

I prefer sweat or solder fittings any day over flare type
I know the join is leak tight.
Flare is old hat
You try and get an engineer in the "field" who has a tea break and cigarette on his mind, whilst he is working in the wind chill to sit down and methodically redo flare, lubricate, etc, etc
No ways

[Dan]

The fewer mechanical fittings you have, the better. The larger the refrigerant charge the more costly mechanical fittings become.

I do supermarkets. 15 years ago, a typical supermarket would have upwards of 500 flare fittings. Refrigerant was not only non-political, but also inexpensive.

Today, there is social responsibility as well as significant cost of refrigerant to deal with.

Today, you will see valves with fewer pilot lines, for example, simply because it reduces a fitting.

Any time one uses a wrench to remove something from a refrigeration system, he or she should use a torch to put in its replacement.

I feel rather strongly about this after years of being stubborn.:)

Dan

[Rick Harris]

It seems funny talking about flares when most of the apprentices I see today could not form one to save their lives.Where I work hot works permits are like hens teeth so we have to flare,or more commonly use the Lock-ring system which although is a mechanical joint is the best thing I have ever seen outside weldingHas anyone else used this system?