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DSinOR
13-09-2017, 01:38 AM
I'm confused by the oem relay on an Italian ISA Samoa gelato cooler.

The cooler is 30 miles away, so I cannot go look at it until next week. Would like to order replacement relay now.

The cooler was built for operation in USA. The controller is Eliwell ID974, 115v version.

The Eliwell controller has an onboard 115v to 12v transformer. It doesn't say whether the 12v is ac or dc.
14976

The next photo shows a partial view of the relay. The model is G7L-2A-TUB.

14975

I think they used the same 240v relay in all the coolers, and just allowed USA 120v power to be switched by the 240v rated relay.

But I'm confused by the photo. It seems to say that the coil voltage is 200-240v. Am I reading that correctly?

I expected this relay to be driven by 12v to switch 120/240v, and was ready to order on Mouser until I saw the photo.

Then I looked on Mouser and saw that the relay is available with specs for coil voltage of 12vac, 12vdc, and even 200-240vac, to switch either 120vac or 240vac.

Then my brain began to smoke.

Hoping to tap into knowledge here.

On an Italian cooler with Eliwell ID974 controller, does the controller's transformer output 12vac or 12vdc?

Is the coil in the big relay driven by 12v or line voltage?

Can anyone identify the replacement relay I need to buy based on the photo and the info I've given about the machine?

If the oem relay in the photo is actually driven by 200-240vac, how crazy is it that it was working in a 120vac system?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

My plan:
Buy replacement controller, probes, and relay;
then travel over to cooler location and replace all these parts;
then see if it runs.

Long-distance jobs like this can be quite frustrating.

Thx.

FaultCode
13-09-2017, 03:01 PM
Looks like 220-240 coil to me, photo a bit blurry.

Off topic - Grizzly, long distance 30 miles jobs would be great eh?

Grizzly
13-09-2017, 06:56 PM
Off Topic.
Yep that would be wonderful Brian.
Although I guess most of the Guys on the Forum would relish it as well.

DSinOR
I am hoping someone will clarify this dilemma for you.
As the details I have refer to 240 /12v so I cannot reference 120v.
Sorry Grizzly

frank
13-09-2017, 07:03 PM
30 miles :cool:....I did a trip to Isle of Skye last week with a stop into Edinburgh on the way back then Newcastle after that.....Totaled just short of 1050 miles round trip for 3 jobs!!!!

Tayters
13-09-2017, 07:12 PM
Low voltage is only to power the PCB. Controller will have it's own transformer like yours or you buy a separate transformer. There are two versions of controller, 12 or 240V, alright, perhaps third rated 120V.
Voltage is AC as PCB takes it from there.
Controller doesn't switch this voltage. You wire a separate feed and this gets switched. Have a look at a diagram, they are pretty simple.
It is odd that you have a 200/240V relay on a 120V system but then nothing should be a surprise where Italian wiring is concerned.

Grizzly
13-09-2017, 07:14 PM
Wow Frank.
Your Service Area is to big!
Whiskey, Gin and Brown Ale Collected on route then eh?

Grizzly

frank
13-09-2017, 08:20 PM
Now that you mention it...it was a distillery on the Isle of Skye...lol

DSinOR
13-09-2017, 09:47 PM
Low voltage is only to power the PCB. Controller will have it's own transformer like yours or you buy a separate transformer. There are two versions of controller, 12 or 240V, alright, perhaps third rated 120V.
Voltage is AC as PCB takes it from there.
Controller doesn't switch this voltage. You wire a separate feed and this gets switched. Have a look at a diagram, they are pretty simple.
It is odd that you have a 200/240V relay on a 120V system but then nothing should be a surprise where Italian wiring is concerned.

This nailed it I think.

Off topic:
LOL at the "long distance" commentary.
Perhaps I should rephrase.
I'm not a tech, I live rural, my wife takes care of most things needed "in town", I'm lazy, I won't drive to town unless I have too, my laziness frustrates my ability to fix my friend's cabinet, therefore I am frustrated because I'm lazy, and I may be dealing with my frustration by being lazy. It's a tough life really.

On topic:
I went and got the compressor relay last night, because it was my bottleneck to ordering parts. It was sooo far! :rolleyes:

Observations:
1 - The oem 115v controller has an onboard transformer for 115v to 12v.
2 - It has 3 relays, all with 12v coils, all rated for switching 240v, all capable of switching 120v.
3 - The oem compressor relay has a 200-240v coil that was being successfully driven by 120v line voltrage switched by one of the controller relays.

Apparently a 120vac signal will close and hold-close the 200-240v coil of on the compressor relay, so the Italians just left it in there when building a USA 120v model.

Plan:
Buy a 115v replacement Eliwell controller and new probes from EDI.
Buy a replacement compressor relay from Mouser (they have the entire line of Omron G7L).

I guess it makes most sense to buy the Omron with a 120vac coil.

Thanks for the feedback etc.

It's a great help.

DS

Grizzly
13-09-2017, 10:16 PM
well done, a good result!
Grizzly

DSinOR
14-09-2017, 02:57 AM
Hey Griz, I saw that you posted on my other thread about the compressor ground wire.
Your comments were about the fat tube, etc.

A guy named Rob posted there as well.

He's starting to help me see that replacing all the control components may not be the fix I thought it was.

I gotta decide whether to order the parts and try it, or tell the owners that maybe their gelato cooler is a hackjob, and new control parts may be throwing good money after bad.

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?48905-Mystery-wire-under-compressor

Open to more suggestions...

Thx.

Grizzly
14-09-2017, 06:16 AM
tell the owners that maybe their gelato cooler is a hackjob, and new control parts may be throwing good money after bad.

Be truthful and let them decide!
Grizzly

cadwaladr
14-09-2017, 06:47 AM
Ha when you talk about distance I spent two trips to Australian circa 2013 and 2015 so much fun great people hard work in 2015 but we worked as a great team and achieved our goal,man just got to go back soon,

DSinOR
14-09-2017, 06:43 PM
Hey Griz, I saw that you posted on my other thread about the compressor ground wire.
Your comments were about the fat tube, etc.

A guy named Rob posted there as well.

He's starting to help me see that replacing all the control components may not be the fix I thought it was.

I gotta decide whether to order the parts and try it, or tell the owners that maybe their gelato cooler is a hackjob, and new control parts may be throwing good money after bad.

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?48905-Mystery-wire-under-compressor

Open to more suggestions...

Thx.

Yah.

For the record, truth was never the issue.

It was always about tapping into expertise to help identify the probable best course of action. I think we got there. Thanks.

I gotta say, I'm glad I posted that pic of the compressor.

Best.

DS