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doormaster2008
30-06-2017, 03:22 PM
Can anybody tell me why we are getting screwed over with refrigerant prices. Just been told another 50% increase in r404a and another 20% increase in r134a. That means in the last few months r404a has inreased by 40% then 45% and from 1st July another 50%. Also r134a has gone up from 5.65kg to 13.95kg and is going up another 20% 1st July. Criminal

monkey spanners
30-06-2017, 07:08 PM
Get your R134a from auto factors, much cheaper. As for prices think its a mix of f gas phase down and shortage of flourospar to make the refrigerants.

Rob White
01-07-2017, 06:48 PM
The production of high GWP refrigerants is being regulated
and reduced which means that what there is, is going to
get more and more expensive as it gets less and less.

Time to look for other options I think :)

Rob

.

hookster
01-07-2017, 08:52 PM
Hard to explain them increasing the price of low GWP refrigerants!

Rob White
02-07-2017, 12:42 PM
Hard to explain them increasing the price of low GWP refrigerants!

I completely agree with you, with that.

I used to work for a wholesalers and have colleagues
who work in the gas production industry and I have
talked with them in detail about the subject and
in simple terms it comes down to supply and demand.

Untill the new refrigerants are mass produced they will
continue to be expensive. When one or two individual
refrigerants are chosen as the favorite the price would
fall but until all refrigerants are produced in high quantities
to bring the price down, they will remain high.

Rob

.

Rob White
02-07-2017, 12:45 PM
.

I now work for a Hugh company who has a direct contract
with BOC and I ordered some R449A the other day and was
told there was a 3 week turn around period while it was made.

So BOC make the stuff to order.
While it's like that, the price will always be high.

Regards

Rob

.

chemi-cool
02-07-2017, 03:51 PM
Manufacturers and wholesalers are simply holding the industry by the balls and they don't even blink when they raise the prices.
there is no shortage of refrigerants but smaller quantities, plants don't shut down.

Too many industries depends on refrigerant, more and more domestic ac units are being installed.
I wonder how much tax the governments are taking per KG.

It's a cruel game where only the customer lose.

cadwaladr
02-07-2017, 08:25 PM
20% vat,that's all I can see it would be curious to know what the cost per kg it is in other EU countries

hyperion
02-07-2017, 09:13 PM
Some of the wholesalers are no longer offering special prices if you buy a reasonable quantity of cylinders of one flavour.
Everything is now based on the single cylinder price.
Not so bad if you are selling your gas to service customers who will be paying the current price, but definitely not good if you have a large fixed price project quoted back in February, which will be commissioned in September and requires 400kgs of refrigerant R410A. You can guess who is going to loose out on that one!

doormaster2008
05-07-2017, 05:38 PM
Just been quoted 539 for 12kg of r422a from the same wholsaler i paid 189 less than 2 months ago. Bloody criminal

hookster
05-07-2017, 07:37 PM
Just been quoted 539 for 12kg of r422a from the same wholsaler i paid 189 less than 2 months ago. Bloody criminal

They are bandits committing highway robbery in the name of environmental concerns, to boost prices on low GWP refrigerants while trying to price the GWP refrigerants out of the market to meet some BS environmental targets.
Our industry bodies need to start getting involved but as usual they are just pawns to the manufacturers/wholesalers and are more interested in corporate entertainment that actual policy decisions.

All we have from years of input is some crappy f-gas legislation that is unenforceable and refrigerants and equipment charged with refrigerants still being sold and installed by every Tom **** & Harry!

Sorry rant over but its hot and busy for us guys out there at the moment and all this refrigerant BS just winds me up!

hyperion
05-07-2017, 10:03 PM
Try explaining the constant rounds of refrigerant price rises to your client and he just thinks that you are scamming him.
I wonder how long the industry can afford to keep on accepting and passing on these huge price increases before something changes.
The commercial fridge end users are soon going to complain when the service bills start to skyrocket out of proportion.
Quite agree that the hot weather is probably making us all more tetchy and grumpy. Rant over.

joe-ice
05-07-2017, 10:15 PM
Perhaps its time for some kind of co-op to be formed by refrigeration companies large and small to import these gases directly from china or wherever they are made.

cadwaladr
06-07-2017, 12:59 AM
A co-op would not work,if I am understanding the price increases it sounds like profiteering plain and simple what can be done I guess nothing,concentrating on preventing leakage is one way of keeping customer happy but quoting for a large install must be a nightmare but on the other hand everyone is in the same boat so to speak?,these price hikes are not happening worldwide it just seems to be in the UK from what I am told,co2 sounds like the future.

hyperion
06-07-2017, 09:23 AM
Just got to spend more time shopping around for the best price at that point in time. Wish we had stockpiled last year!
Just noticed that the price per kilo from D&W and HRP for the most popular flavours of refrigerant are almost identical. I appreciate that they are both owned by Beijer Ref and the price coincidence is despite being supplied by different refrigerant manufacturers. Is it just a case of because they can?

chilliwilly
15-07-2017, 04:33 PM
I paid over 200.00 for a dumpy of R422D in February, I had no choice as it was the only ideal drop in replacement for R22 that they recommended.

I wouldn't mind but on the next system it was the same compressor and almost identicle components and I used 407 C, and it worked just as good and was much cheaper about a third of the price. I know which replacement I will be using next time.

I have noticed D&W and HRP stock A gas and BOC and their prices are almost on par, like the other posts say its all down to greed and take it or leave it.

How does anyone in manufactruing equipment compete with exporting to the far Eastern market, that still use the old gases and only use the equipment in their own and meighbouring countries.

hyperion
17-07-2017, 08:47 PM
Just noticed that Beijer Ref announced an increase in profits this quarter. Strange that!

cadwaladr
17-07-2017, 10:09 PM
Erm,profiteering nasty word but something is not right

Spare Parts Man
18-07-2017, 09:51 AM
posts 11 & 12 mirror my views. Problem is there are too many different variant refrigerants out there now where in the past R11, R12, R22, R502 did most jobs. Also falling interest in membership of trade associations and zero effective lobbying on behalf of the industry don't help.

Either way, end users are feeling screwed by us, trouble is we don't feel the pleasure...

hyperion
19-07-2017, 08:50 PM
Just received notification that R404A is to go up by 50%, R410A by 30% and R134a by 20% as from 1st August. Guess it's time to get stocked up again. More prices to change on new quotations, just in order to keep up.

cadwaladr
19-07-2017, 10:17 PM
Holy smoke! glad to be out of the madness 50% on 404a!

Imp
08-10-2017, 09:46 AM
R422d, R404a have very high GWP's so the price will rise and it is likely that these refrigerants will be withdrawn from sale early 2018. It is supply and demand. The chemical plants cannot just go and make some more. It is all on a quota if gwp. With regards to 407c as a replacement for 22, not a good idea. 22 worked with mineral oil. 407 works with synthetic polyolester oils. There will be a miscibility issue unless you have drilled the bottom of the compressor and done an oil change. Refrigerant issues are here to stay. R32 will be the last HFC for Aircon. See Kigali agreement for further info.