Horrific High Rise Fire in London.

[Grizzly]

Hi Guys.

I would like to ask if anyone else has heard the rumour that this horrendous event was started by a Refrigerator Fire?
Which I am advise had on of the new "Friendly!" Highly flammable gasses within it!

Interesting one this and serious scrutiny of what the industry is forcing upon us!
Should be up for discussion.

Green at any cost is not acceptable in my book!
Its just a rumour at the moment.
We shall wait and see.
Grizzly

[joe-ice]

Plenty of stories on the internet of exploding fridges where they leaked internally and went bang when the stat kicked in , larger cabinets are starting to appear now with r290 with larger charges in . The biggest problem i can see is theres no stenching agent in the gas so no warning which is crazy.

[redroge]

One of the first people to be interviewed said his neighbor told him his fridge had exploded! Is it true most domestics are now charged with inflammable gas?

[Glenn Moore]

Most new fridges and freezers are charged with R600A Isobutane . The charge is very small , but also most of these new units have a run capacitor fitted to improve efficiency. But these often are cheap crappy quality which can leak and sometime explode. The electrics are supposed to be sealed but! . Often I've seen the electrics have been changed to a retro fit type not suitable to be used with R600A. Strange the guy had time to pack his belongings before warning his neighbours there was a fire!!!!!!!!
Good old R12 never had these problems , so save the planet but we are all at risk due to poor quality components to keep the product costs down

[Grizzly]

were on the same wavelength methinks! Glenn?
Grizzly

[robertniez1961]

Not only in London also in the Philippines. The first time they introduces hydrocarbon alternative 15 years ago the institution that I manage experienced this kind of horrific experience!!!

[jimnut]

Hi
I understand that R23 is not explosive but inflammable with a naked flame which was the info I was given by one of my suppliers If this is true what do you think the insurance companies are going to think about a large AC system in on office block
I may be wrong but would like to know

[Rob White]

Hi
I understand that R23 is not explosive but inflammable with a naked flame which was the info I was given by one of my suppliers If this is true what do you think the insurance companies are going to think about a large AC system in on office block
I may be wrong but would like to know

R23? Do you mean R32? R32 has the ability to burn
but the likelihood of it burning under normal conditions
is almost nil.

R32 has to have a heat source or an enriched oxygen
supply for it to auto ignite. If it is set on fire, in air with
a flame, if you remove the flame it will go out.

Test have been done with a sealed room and candles burning
on the floor at spaced intervals. In air they burnt like candles,
with a room full of R32 they burnt like bright candles.

I don't think the problem lays with the refrigerant, I think the
problem is with electrics and insulation inside small integrals.

The insulation is blown with flammable gasses and then a thin
sheet of plastic or tin foil is sealed to the outside. This plastic
or tin foil offers no real protection and if the fire starts there is
no protection and the insulation catches fire.

Hydro Carbons are the future, we just have to learn to use them,
live with them and respect them. Then just treat them the same as
anything else, don't fear them.

Rob

.

[chemi-cool]

In my fridge, an aluminium pipe exploded a few years ago in the middle of the night, I was sure someone started shooting inside the house.... Was R-600..
My new fridge is on R-134a, took some time to find one.

[cadwaladr]

In my opinion r600 is not safe in the fridges available here unless the cabinet build is dramatically changed

[frank]

My last 'Armana' American style fridge was on R134A. 2 months out of warranty if failed due to floccing of the capillary.
As the capillary was buried in the casing and suction pipe, the supplier agreed to give me a replacement fridge, after a 3 way tele conversation with me, him and his fridge expert.

1 week after it arrived, I changed the gas to R49. Lasted 15 years before the evap sensor rotted away.

Got a Samsung with Digital scroll now.

[piewie]

Plenty of stories on the internet of exploding fridges where they leaked internally and went bang when the stat kicked in , larger cabinets are starting to appear now with r290 with larger charges in . The biggest problem i can see is theres no stenching agent in the gas so no warning which is crazy.

The Stenching agent is an additive and even if they added it the drier would remove it almost instantaneously.

[piewie]

To start with I would like to acknowledge that the fire in London was a horrific event and my heart goes out to all those that were affected and lost loved ones and friends or family.

The IOR hosted a talk about Fridges fires etc. earlier in the year at the London Southbank University. The talk was given by London Fire brigade and it would appear that beside the US, London is the only place that have statistics on causes of houses fires. There were also a few people from our UK fridge manufacturers and the consensus is that the EU is holding back the implementation of Standards which will force manufacturers to make the fridges from less combustible materials. It would appear that it is not the refrigerant which is the source of fuel but the insulation and plastic materials. However if we implemented the higher standards then our UK products would no longer be competitive with the rubbish that floods in from the EU (not necessarily all made in EU). Looking at the statistics, to the naked eye it is a lack of maintenance that actually causes the failures. Rats/mice, accumulation of dirt fibres etc. and the failures of the starting relays and capacitors are the most common sources of ignition. I was so enlightened by this talk that I went home and cleaned out the mechanics of both our fridges. I hesitate to say that we will in a little while see the implementation of regulated annual inspection regimes which will possibly be bought about by the insurance market.