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AdeV
12-06-2017, 09:07 PM
Hi,

I've got an 18000btu split a/c unit (Bergdorf) I bought a few years ago. I self-installed it in my portakabin office, and it worked beautifully for about 12 months, then slowly and noticeably got less & less effective over the next 6-8 months. Diagnosis - I didn't do the connection pipes up firmly enough, and the gas leaked out over time. It sat on the wall for the next 4-5 years, a few months back I decommissioned the cabin but kept the A/C unit.

Obviously, it needs new gas (R134 I think, but will confirm before I get any obviously). I'm also assuming I need to add some oil, but here come the questions....

1) How much oil? Roughly? Is it likely to have lost much as the leak was so slow?
2) How much gas? I can get 5kg of R134A for 35 locally, I'm guessing that would last me a lifetime even if I didn't cure the leak...
3) I'd like to re-use the piping. It's been indoors most of its life, and the only times it's been disturbed are when I've disturbed it, so it shouldn't be too distorted/fractured or work hardened. Plus it's going back into an indoor setting (the outside unit is under cover), so it should last years, right?

This is a self-install again by me (a capable amateur but not an a/c expert by any stretch), the building is basically a large shed, it's not for commercial or domestic use, so I don't need to follow codes, so long as I don't do anything stupidly dangerous.

Of course, if it would only cost, say 50ish to have someone come onsite & gas/oil/recommission it for me, then that's the route I'd take. Unfortunately I'm on a shoestring budget though, otherwise I'd be tempted to just buy another one.

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers!
Ade.

cadwaladr
12-06-2017, 09:33 PM
Where are you in the UK,that may get you some response?

The Viking
12-06-2017, 10:16 PM
it's not for commercial or domestic use, so I don't need to follow codes, so long as I don't do anything stupidly dangerous.

Welcome to the real world.

You have set your location as UK. Here we are not allowed to carry out any work on any refrigeration circuits unless we are suitably qualified and registered. Sorry.

Only trained technicians can carry out work on equipment containing F gases, including:

installation
testing for leaks
general maintenance
disposal or decommissioning when you no longer need the product



For more information have a look HERE (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/f-gas-in-refrigeration-air-conditioning-and-fire-protection-systems)

:cool:

AdeV
13-06-2017, 12:12 AM
Hi, thanks for the replies.

I'm in Birkenhead, right on the end of the Wirral peninsular. Miles away from anyone...

Re codes/qualifications/registrations etc.... well, I won't tell if you won't ;)

Seriously - I'm just after some advice. I'll have a go at re-gassing it myself, if it's not incredibly difficult, but without the proper training etc. I obviously don't know the volumes, pressures, and so on. Come to think of it, I don't even know _what_ oil to use (Mobil 1 is not suitable, I assume!). At the end of the day, if I destroy my own AC unit, then I can just shrug and buy another one when the budget allows. I just need to not set it on fire...

Cheers!
Ade.

AdeV
13-06-2017, 12:14 AM
PS: I do spend quite a lot of time in China. We can pretend the A/C unit is there if that helps nudge nudge wink wink etc...

cadwaladr
13-06-2017, 12:21 AM
Sorry most people here don't do nudge wink,we are professionals that abide by all! the rules and regulations,cowboys are great in the wild west but my friends on here are all abiding by rules that's what professionals do,if I was you I would just save up and buy a new unit,or put more Windows into your cabin.

hookster
13-06-2017, 07:27 AM
Hi,

1) How much oil? Roughly? Is it likely to have lost much as the leak was so slow?
2) How much gas? I can get 5kg of R134A for 35 locally, I'm guessing that would last me a lifetime even if I didn't cure the leak...
3) I'd like to re-use the piping. It's been indoors most of its life, and the only times it's been disturbed are when I've disturbed it, so it shouldn't be too distorted/fractured or work hardened. Plus it's going back into an indoor setting (the outside unit is under cover), so it should last years, right?
Cheers!
Ade.

"PLUG AND PLAY" AC :rolleyes: capable amateur / I didn't do the connection pipes up firmly enough, and the gas leaked out!

Very funny read (going to get moaned at by the drama police but you would do it anyway so here goes!)
The oil leakage would not have been large enough to worry about just ignore it.
It will have 1.1 - 1.8 Kg of refrigerant (will be marked on the data plate on outdoor unit)
You can reuse the pipe if there is no leak
I hope you are not growing something you should not be????

Until refrigerant and AC products are stopped being sold without the need for certification this will be a continuing saga!
It is not just online stores selling AC but all the manufacturers of AC in the UK, cutting the professionals out as they chase unit sales!

AdeV
13-06-2017, 09:18 AM
Many thanks all. I appreciate everyone here is a professional (so am I... in my chosen profession).

Hookster, many thanks. No... it's not for growing things, it's for keeping my fevered brow cool in summer, and warming my frigid workshop in winter. AS to not doing the pipes up tight enough.... er, yeah (embarrassed smiley), I didn't know they needed to be murder-tight! I do now....

FaultCode
13-06-2017, 01:53 PM
......... AS to not doing the pipes up tight enough.... er, yeah (embarrassed smiley), I didn't know they needed to be murder-tight! I do now....

Not 'murder-tight' but correct tight.

Welcome to the ozone hole generating group.:mad:

AdeV
13-06-2017, 04:25 PM
Welcome to the ozone hole generating group.:mad:

R134a has an ozone depletion rating of zero. My A/C is not so old it uses R12!

See, I'm not a totally clueless idiot.

frank
13-06-2017, 07:41 PM
In all my years in the trade I've never seen an a/c unit on r12...or r134a come to think of it

FaultCode
13-06-2017, 08:07 PM
In all my years in the trade I've never seen an a/c unit on r12...or r134a come to think of it
^^Agreed^^

Tayters
14-06-2017, 12:21 AM
35 for 5kg is cheaper than we get it for a the wholesaler so you are doing well there, or perhaps I'm being rogered.

AdeV
14-06-2017, 12:42 AM
www.gas-uk.co.uk near St Helens, Merseyside. R134A is 35kg for a 5kg bottle (there will be a bottle deposit too, but obviously that's refundable on return of the cylinder). R410A is the same price but the smallest size is 10kg. (so 70). Looks like I only need around 670gms, I can get a piddly little 800g bottle via eBay for around 35 (from Germany? Why no UK suppliers I wonder?) - expensive way to buy it, but OK for a one-off. Then I need to make/buy a filler adapter. Happy days. Good excuse to get on the lathe :)

AdeV
14-06-2017, 12:43 AM
I have an old Ford Granada in the shed, that uses (used) R12. I presume it's all gone off to eat some ozone by now, when I get a very large Round Tuit, I'll replace the A/C system with something that uses a more modern gas.

cadwaladr
14-06-2017, 01:56 AM
That's cheap! Looked on the website provided it appears misleading,but they are getting a call from my son who is still involved in the industry,sadly me due to health issues I am not feet up now awaiting my operation,but wow some refrigerant prices are scary God help you guys out there trying to make money!

Rob White
14-06-2017, 09:01 AM
www.gas-uk.co.uk )

If you look closely on the site before you can order it you
have to submit your F-gas certificate and declare who is the
qualified person who will be using it.

See

https://www.gas-uk.co.uk/help/f-gas

It is against the law in the EU to sell refrigerants to unqualified
personnel and they face prosecution if they flout the law.

Rob

.

Rob White
14-06-2017, 09:22 AM
I can get a piddly little 800g bottle via eBay for around 35 (from Germany? Why no UK suppliers I wonder?)

You will find that any site on ebay that sells refrigerant is quickly
shut down and therefore they all require proof of qualification before
they will take your order.

If you find a site that actually does sell the stuff both you and they
are breaking the law and if found both are open to prosecution.

So your question "Why no UK suppliers" is answered with It is against
the law!

Rob

.

AdeV
14-06-2017, 10:10 AM
If you look closely on the site before you can order it you
have to submit your F-gas certificate and declare who is the
qualified person who will be using it.


I hadn't spotted that, no; but then I hadn't looked closely either. Good to know.





It is against the law in the EU to sell refrigerants to unqualified
personnel and they face prosecution if they flout the law.



Genuine question then: Why is the only R410A on eBay for sale from Germany? I though the Germans were even more sticklers for EU rules than we are/were?


One last question then: Do you need certificates/qualifications to work on vehicle A/C systems; and if so, are they the same certificates/qualifications as you would need to work on fixed A/C systems? Basically... can I get someone who normally does car AC to "do a foreigner*" and regas my split system without breaking any laws?

Cheers,
Ade.


* Obviously any monies paid would be declared for tax etc.

Rob White
14-06-2017, 10:40 AM
I hadn't spotted that, no; but then I hadn't looked closely either. Good to know.




Genuine question then: Why is the only R410A on eBay for sale from Germany? I though the Germans were even more sticklers for EU rules than we are/were?



They are good in Germany, look closer at the site and check the small
print I bet there will be a clause that states a certificate is required.

I honestly would be surprised if they would ship it to you without proof.




One last question then: Do you need certificates/qualifications to work on vehicle A/C systems; and if so, are they the same certificates/qualifications as you would need to work on fixed A/C systems? Basically... can I get someone who normally does car AC to "do a foreigner*" and regas my split system without breaking any laws?

Cheers,
Ade.


* Obviously any monies paid would be declared for tax etc.

I'm sure you could find somebody to do a foreigner :) they could work
in any discipline of the fridge industry. If they were prepared to do the
work and if they were satisfied the system was gas tight, then no laws
would be broken.

Obviously all VAT and duties would be declared and paid :D

Car AC used to be exempt but was brought under similar requirements
to those for static refrigeration equipment.

Since 2014 all mobile fridge, freezer or AC (MAC) is covered by a legal
requirement for refrigerant qualifications. It is not exactly the same
as normal static equipment but they are now clamping down on their
use and who can work on them.

Regards

Rob

.

AdeV
20-06-2017, 04:25 PM
Again, many thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.

I've discovered a kink at one end of the pipes from my unit, so they need either replacing, or cutting back & flaring.

I can't find a suitable board to post an official request on; but if anyone fancies the job of re-gassing & recommissioning the unit for me, please feel free to PM me. I do realise that everyone's going to be snowed under (pardon the phrase) right now, of course. Maybe I'll ask again in October when you're all scratting around for work.....

Cheers!
Ade.

Rob White
20-06-2017, 04:37 PM
.

Put your location in your profile and
somebody who works in your area
might be able to assist.

Regards
Rob

.

The Viking
20-06-2017, 09:50 PM
HI'm in Birkenhead, right on the end of the Wirral peninsular.
Cheers
Ade.

1234567890

AdeV
24-06-2017, 11:22 AM
.

Put your location in your profile and
somebody who works in your area
might be able to assist.

.

Hmm, I thought I had, oops.

I'm in Birkenhead, postcode CH41 1DT.

Still looking for anyone who can assist...

Cheers!
Ade.