PDA

View Full Version : r-410A in an R-22 small dehumidifier compressor







johansen
02-04-2017, 05:17 AM
Can I use the mineral oil already in the compressor assuming the system is built such that the oil has no where to go but return to the compressor, or should i drain it out and use poe or pao oil.

second question is: the line dryer on the compressor isn't easily replaced and i'm wondering how long you think it would take to dry it out if i pull a vacuum on the system while heating the compressor and line dryer to 200F or so. 24 hours, a week? the compressor has been used as an air compressor for some time btw, so it will need to get baked out.

chemi-cool
02-04-2017, 08:19 PM
NO, NO, NO!!!
You can not use r-22 system with r410a even if you change oil.

Compressor is not made for 410.
Pipes might not hold the pressure.
Expansion device is not suitable for 410.
Condenser is too small for 410.
All parts with O rings needs to be changed.

Do yourself a favor and don't do it.

Grizzly
02-04-2017, 09:46 PM
I would also ask Johansen.
Where did you do your refrigerant training?
Sorry to be blunt. But your post does make me question what you are thinking.
Grizzly

The Viking
02-04-2017, 10:23 PM
Oh Grizzly,
I do like your optimism...
This might explain.

Bainbridge
14728

Grizzly
03-04-2017, 06:48 AM
Oh Grizzly,
I do like your optimism...
This might explain.

Bainbridge
14728
yep!
That explains a lot.
Not U.K then!
Thanks.
Grizzly

The Viking
03-04-2017, 09:10 AM
Shame really as we share the same atmosphere.

johansen
07-04-2017, 05:34 AM
NO, NO, NO!!!
You can not use r-22 system with r410a even if you change oil.

Compressor is not made for 410.
Pipes might not hold the pressure.
Expansion device is not suitable for 410.
Condenser is too small for 410.
All parts with O rings needs to be changed.

Do yourself a favor and don't do it.

the application is low temperature and the compressor will not be over pressurized nor overloaded. i will probably be running it from a vfd to get the best efficiency and loading, given the significant changes from original design.

the coils will be re-claimed from r-410 air handler units for all you need to know. the compressor is from an r-22 dehumidifier, that is all you need to know.

Grizzly
07-04-2017, 07:23 AM
If you wish to tell us what we need to know.

When we operate within safe guidelines agreed by our respective countries. why question the don't do it answers you have received.
when installing R410a systems they are tested to 41 bar = 602 psi.
Which is the pressure parts your "system" could achieve if off and heated by a source.
let's say direct sunlight?
You have lots of that don't you?
So if you wish to play with your safety and that of your loved ones feel free.
But don't criticise the professionals on the forum just because they are not saying what you want to here.

The word could is being applied here, not it will!

But whatever happens R22 systems are not designed for the pressure that WILL occur in a R410A system.
Try the American fridge forum and I doubt you will be told different.
Good Luck Grizzly

johansen
07-04-2017, 08:05 AM
If you wish to tell us what we need to know.

When we operate within safe guidelines agreed by our respective countries. why question the don't do it answers you have received.
when installing R410a systems they are tested to 41 bar = 602 psi.
Which is the pressure parts your "system" could achieve if off and heated by a source.
let's say direct sunlight?
You have lots of that don't you?
So if you wish to play with your safety and that of your loved ones feel free.
But don't criticise the professionals on the forum just because they are not saying what you want to here.

The word could is being applied here, not it will!

But whatever happens R22 systems are not designed for the pressure that WILL occur in a R410A system.
Try the American fridge forum and I doubt you will be told different.
Good Luck Grizzly

enough with the bull****.

the water heater in your house isn't even manufactured to the same standards.

anyhow, concerning mineral oil in r-410. i have been reading a lot of bull**** about that. allegedly a bunch of manufacturers say it doesn't matter if you mix pao and mineral oil. it takes oxygen and water vapor and heat and contaminates to make anything bad happen.

as for the compressor, i'll be sure to make sure that r-410 at 60F is much less pressure than R-22 at 140F could ever generate.

The Viking
07-04-2017, 12:06 PM
Dear Johansen,

Why, when you know all the answers do you bother to ask for advice?

You are in USA, I'm on the other side of the pond, of course you can use your R22 compressor (and any other parts from the dehumidifier you see fit) for R410a, you might also want to consider R290 as that is cheaper and readily available.
When it blows up, myself and my kids are far enough away that I don't have to loose any sleep at night.

:cool:

Grizzly
07-04-2017, 02:21 PM
Hi
I am not here to argue with anyone.
"We" on the forum try and help other like minded Refrigeration Engineers with advise and data etc.
Where we can!
To explain in values used in your Country.
R22 @ 140F =330 psi
R22 @ 60F = 101.65psi

R410a @ 140F = 540.44 psi
R410a @ 60F = 173.81psi

So whatever way you look at it the pressures with R410A are much Higher.
Do what you want its your equipment.
And your liability is your not mine.
However please refrain from having a go at anyone on the forum as we are only trying to help.

Why are you wanting to change from R22 to R410 in the first place?
I thought that R22 was still readily available in USA.
In refrigeration systems the use of dissimilar oils can create a jelly like contaminate which will block any control orifices very quickly.
If you wish give it a go.
Just telling you it as we are taught.
If it's B.S as you call it then fine.
Grizzly

NH3LVR
07-04-2017, 08:59 PM
Viking:
Even though am on the same side of the Pond as Johansen, I can assure you we are not all as stubborn.

Johansen:
You overlooked one major issue.
R410 compressors have a larger motor in relation to to the piston size.
Changing to R410 from R22 will overload the motor.
Ask anyone who has ever grabbed the wrong bottle and put R22 in an R12 system.;)

And that is all you need to know!