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View Full Version : Anyone got any experience with climate center Cellar coolers? Need help.







Ben23
23-02-2017, 09:26 PM
I have currently been to a call out for a climate center beer master system or Cellar mastee or something like that. Its climates own brand or Cellar cooling system. I got a call out saying its not getting to tempereture. Evaporator fan motor was fine fan was working display didnt have any of the fault codes that are in the manual it just said Hi. Im assuming high temp. The condenser was completely blocked up so i cleaned it all thinkking its gone out on high pressure. The pressure switches are flared on self resseting ones.

I turned off and on the indoor and outdoor units but the outdoor wouldnt kick in at all. I went indoors again and checked the evaporator and it was now saying 22 on front which was the room temp. So it should be calling for gas. I checked the solonoid and there was no power going to it to open it up. Unfortunantly i didnt have my magnet at hand so im going back there to see if the sytem will start if i use it to open the valve in which case the pcb isnt working, but if it isnt that Is there anything in particular on these that would hold the system off from running. Its only about 2 years old but I always have trouble sorting these units out anytime I get called to one. Theyre alot of hassle for something so simple.

Tayters
24-02-2017, 12:39 AM
Fiddled with one yonks back. All I can recall is that it took ages to start after resetting the power.
Well, seemed like ages but prob no more than 5 mins.

cadwaladr
24-02-2017, 12:50 AM
Check if there is a manual high pressure switch most packaged condensing units have them along with the Auto reset ones it could be tucked out of sight.

Ben23
24-02-2017, 04:08 AM
I did ask technical support bloke and he said theyre self ressetting. But the problem im having is surely even if the solonoid was closed the condenser would try to run at least once. Seems weird. I dont like these units any other unit seems alot easier to figure out these are just pants the one i reopaired a leak on before wouldnt start and after half hour it all of a sudden decided to work. Like tge pressure switches are a bit sticky at ressetting thereself.

cadwaladr
24-02-2017, 06:30 AM
The time delay would make sense,if it does not have a manual resetting switch only auto resetting one's,did you turn off the power to the whole system

marc5180
24-02-2017, 07:10 AM
You need to check if the compressor contractor (K1) has pulled in, check voltage across A1 and A2.
If So then the HP and LP switches aren't the problem.
Failing thst it's either an input to the control board that's holding it off or the relay in the control board has is stuck.

Ben23
24-02-2017, 10:21 AM
The cobtactor that starts compressor isnt pulling in at all.

marc5180
24-02-2017, 02:41 PM
Sorry, my bad. It won't do until the solenoid is energised. That's what happens when I post when still half asleep!
If the solenoid isn't energising then you need to go through the settings in the controller and confirm that they haven't been changed.
If the settings are correct then it's a relay/control board fault.

What's the model number of the outdoor?

Ben23
24-02-2017, 03:43 PM
I had the solonoid energised via a 240v connection still nothing changed the contactor for another one and still nothing

Ben23
24-02-2017, 03:45 PM
Outdoor modek is bmo 150-1

Ben23
24-02-2017, 05:22 PM
Contactor worked forgot to put jumpers across it but now its still not opening soloid the air temp sensor works inside as i put it in a glass of cold water and temp started to show as coming down and went back up when i took it out. Also when i had the solonoid open by sticking 240 to it it ran but the suction went down then it crept back up realy high and the discharge didnt go down either as the fan on condenser didnt come in so im lost as to how much is wrong

Grizzly
24-02-2017, 05:51 PM
Hi Ben.
I have sent you a manual which will help.
Have you the top led lit, as this is calling for cooling mode.
No LED's means no cooling
The wiring diagram should help you identify where the control circuit voltage is being interrupted.
Both the HP and LP switches are inline to the comp contactor.
Which may be relevant?
It also shows where the fan speed controller sensor (May be the issue) is sited.
Let us know how you get on.
Grizzly

Ben23
24-02-2017, 06:41 PM
Ok thank you I have a defrost light showing althougj theres no defrost sensor fitted as it only allows you to set it at 8 degrees. I know the solonoid coil works as i put 240 to it and it opened and suction pressure went up but the condenser wouldnt kick in. I linked lp out nothing until i changed the contactor then it went in then suction pressure went down then crept up really high about 7 bar and 21 bar on high side fan wouldnt cut in so turned it off also what is the high pressure cut out as that wasnt linked out and id of thought that should of knocked it out at that pressure.

The solonoid still isnt getting power from the board and the condenser wont cut in witg lp in but the contactor prior was dodgy as it wouldnt cut in linked out beforehand.
The indoor air on sensor is picking up on temp changes like when i held it so thats not holding solonoid.
Now i am completely lost as of what is going on and am to tired now will have to return monday
The evaporatorr ends up displaying HI after a while with defrost light on. How can such a simple system be so difficult. A/c systems are sp much easier to work on than fridges.

Ben23
24-02-2017, 06:43 PM
Also how comes when i link the lp back on the contactor wont pull in for the compressor surely it should but not run. But when its linked out it pulls in.

Grizzly
24-02-2017, 07:04 PM
If you are linking out the lp switch and getting the contactor in.
Could be a red hearing as on defrost the system would surely pump down?
So the system would be out on LP.
Which is standard on a defrost cycle.
Read the manual about the controller and defrost.
It should clarify a few things.
Grizzly

Grizzly
24-02-2017, 07:10 PM
Quoted straight from the Manual.
8.4 Defrost
IMPORTANT: Ensure that energy saving mode is disabled,
jumper in the lower ‘C’ position see section 8.6
To enable cooling below 8C, a secondary sensor is required to
sense the evaporator coil temperature. With this defrost sensor in
place the setpoint can be lowered below 8C.
The secondary sensor should be fitted into the bottom part of the
evaporator coil. It should be inserted between two fins on the air-on
side and pushed firmly into the coil. The two fins should be closed up
around the sensor to keep it in position.
When this second sensor is fitted, the controller will initiate an off-
cycle defrost every 60 minutes. During defrost, cooling is stopped
and all fans run on. (Both LEDs ON). Defrost is terminated after 30
minutes or if the defrost sensor temperature rises above “set point +
1C”.
The evaporator coil should be inspected after initially running for 12 to
24 hours. If any ice has built up, the defrost sensor should be
relocated to (or near to) where the ice formed. The coil should be
fully defrosted before continuing. The defrost regime is non-
adjustable.
8.5 Controller alarm output & fault signals
If the space temperature is outside –1 or+2C of the set point for 30
minutes the alarm will be initiated. The alarm will automatically reset
once the space temperature is within the control band.
A 12-volt relay can be connected between the Alarm ‘SIG’ and the
'+12 V' connections on the top 6-way connector to energise alarm
sirens and/or lamps.
The relay-operating coil must be rated at 12 volts with a maximum
current of 50mA.
If either the air or defrost sensor fails the display will flash a fault
signal alternatively with the space temperature.
The signal will latch, and will not reset until the power is reset. Fault
signals are: -
P1/OC = Air sensor Open Circuit,
P1/SC = Air sensor Short Circuit,
P2/OC = Defrost sensor Open Circuit,
P2/SC = Defrost sensor Short Circuit,
If a defrost sensor fault occurs the setpoint will be limited to 8C
minimum until the fault is resolved, even if set lower.
If an air sensor fault occurs the heating and cooling functions are
disabled.
8.6 Evaporator energy saving
The BMI controller when supplied is set to run all fans continuously
(jumper in the lower ‘C’ position).
The controller can be set to only run the first fan when off cycle or in
heating mode. This reduces the energy consumption significantly.
To set the controller into energy saving mode: -
a) Turn off and isolate the power to the BMI unit,
b) Remove the front cover from the controls facia.
c) Find the small jumper between the fuse and earth screw.
d) Move the jumper to the upper ‘S’.
Note that energy saving mode should not be used in conjunction
with off-cycle defrost (see section 8.4).
Grizzly

Ben23
24-02-2017, 09:34 PM
The pcb i changed was set up exactly thr same as the old one. Therea are no fault codes showing up and I tested the air on sensor in water in hand and temp moves. Theres no defrost sensor on the unit im working on. But the defrost light is on :s which is maybe why the solonoid is closed as it wants to pump down. But this is all completely seperate issue to why the contactor doesnt pu in on compressor when lp is in the circuit it should still be pulling in but not running if lp is the problem. Seems weird. Plus the fan not running on condenser amd suctiom amd discharge to go abnormally high when it run with lp linked out.

Its been a long day I think im gonna have to ring climate center amd get one of there engineers to meet me there whatever it is at least ill know something to look out for in the future. Probably something simple.
I just dont understand how the solonoid isnt opening itself the outdoor fan dont run when i link lp out why the lp switcn stops contactor pulling in and everythinf else.

This is the most baffled ive ever been i nevee want ro worm on another one of these units. Ive read the whole manual and nothing in there has made me think of anythinf else that could be wrong.

marc5180
24-02-2017, 11:02 PM
Ben,

Don't take this the wrong way but can you read wiring diagrams and test the control circuit?

If you can then it's just a process of elimination.

If the solenoid valve is de-energised then you shouldn't have power out of the LP switch (because the system should have pumped down) and the compressor contactor shouldn't pull in.

If you link out the LP switch and connect directly to the compressor contactor then the compressor would run, unless there is no power on this cable? Which means you need to test further back at the HP switch or even the fuse.
Rather than linking things out to get them to run, in the wrong order, test each part/cable in situ and follow the wiring diagram.

marc5180
24-02-2017, 11:10 PM
BTW - If the defrost light is on then the system is in defrost mode, it won't give a voltage to the solenoid and subsequently the system should stay in pumpdown mode.
It sounds like the system is doing what it should.
First and foremost you need to look at the set points and the defrost settings. Maybe try putting the setpoint up to 10'C temporarily.

Ben23
24-02-2017, 11:38 PM
No offence taken im not great at diagrama but everythinf I can do and diagnose ive learned from experience and thw nly way your learn is by doing.
the rooms 24/25 so it shouldnt be pumping down. I dont do to well with wiring diagrams I just test tge main components i know how they work together its just being a pain to work out. Hopefully will have more of a clear heas monday

Ben23
24-02-2017, 11:39 PM
Also whem the solonoid is energised whwn i stick power rto it the system still wont start outside (fan or comp)

Ben23
24-02-2017, 11:40 PM
The only settings on it are temp up or temp down.

Grizzly
25-02-2017, 12:41 AM
Hi Ben.
Thanks for an interesting fault.
I agree with you in getting a second opinion.
There are all sorts of if but and maybe's with this one.

I am assuming you know that if you hold the up and down buttons in for 10secs.
You enter setup mode!
Because you mention having had to change settings.
I must admit why its stuck on defrost has me puzzled, (Contactor / relay stuck?)
Is the controller confused?
Is the 5 amp safety circuit fuse ok?
There are a lot of us on here wanting to help but guessing from afar can be difficult.
Good luck and please let us all know how you get on.
Grizzly

Ben23
25-02-2017, 09:33 AM
Yeah i know that the up and down buttons held bring up set temp. I set it to 8 but the bottom light with a snowflake and drips of water coming off of it stays on. When i first reset the system it has no lights the evap fan just runs upstairs unit doesnt. Then the defrost light illuminates? Although in one of the manuals it says both lights are on for a defrost but its like the evap is stuck in the startup procedure and the condenser just doesnt start. Its going to be something so simple that ill end up kicking myself for it but its something id of learned from in the end.

I personally think that someones been meddling with the system before me as theres no way more than one sensor the contactor the solonoid etc all would have gone at once and id of had a call out for the first thing going wrong.

marc5180
25-02-2017, 10:04 AM
Also whem the solonoid is energised whwn i stick power rto it the system still wont start outside (fan or comp)

The compressor and condenser fan motor are both fed by the inline fuse and go through the HP and LP switch first.
Even if the solenoid is energised, if no power is going through these components the compressor nor condenser fan motor will start.
Where is the job?

Ben23
25-02-2017, 11:56 AM
Jobs in london near a4 im the only fridge engineer on my company but mainly done ac prior like mitsi and daikin onky been doing it just under 3 years