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Andy T
07-05-2006, 10:20 PM
How can I calculate my day rate for as sub contractor?What is the normal overnight staying away from home expenses rate? What is the calculation for traveling expenses in my own van?

Ireland
08-05-2006, 10:30 PM
The rates in Ireland start about €25.00 per hour plus VAT and go up from there depending on location and ability.

That is the bottom end of the scale and most earn significantly more than that.

That's just the ones I know.

I'm sure you will be able to work out a rate you need to be able to pay yourself a decent wage, cover your bills and pay your tax.

Your ability and your attitude will ultimately determine what you end up with.

Andy T
10-05-2006, 08:52 AM
As I Have Worked for a company for 20 years and now gone out on my own.I am getting a little nervous about some companies asking me to install equipment 300miles away and when I give them a quote.They Reject it saying it's only two days work.They ask why so much ,when I explain about the travel time and overnight stay.I think because I am new at this that they can give all the out of area jobs that the normal sub contractor who they use.He don't want them.I find it frustrating that I get offered work but have to turn it down as it would not be cost effective.At the risk of missing out on bigger jobs later or expand my client base.

Andy T
10-05-2006, 09:16 AM
The quicker refrigeration industry get regulated the better, with a set minimum rate.The industry seems to so cut throat leaving no money for the engineer.I am not going to lower my rates just to win a job.I'll just pack in and go to collage and get Corgi Trained.

Andy T
10-05-2006, 09:19 AM
Sorry about the rant & rave.I HAVE HAD A BAD DAY!!!

Abe
10-05-2006, 10:21 AM
The quicker refrigeration industry get regulated the better, with a set minimum rate.The industry seems to so cut throat leaving no money for the engineer.I am not going to lower my rates just to win a job.I'll just pack in and go to collage and get Corgi Trained.


I am all for regulation, failing that get Corgi Registered and switch to boilers

Its not a myth that a plumber can earn 70k a year

S_Line
10-05-2006, 12:55 PM
nooo you cant be a plumber, part of being a AC engineer is that you can controll th eclimate from -30 to +30 :)

Plumbers can only do the +30 bit :lol:

Andy T
10-05-2006, 05:15 PM
I should be worth twice as much then:rolleyes:

Ireland
10-05-2006, 06:44 PM
Why not get some business cards and stickers printed and go on the "cold calling" route to start off with service work from whoever gives it to you and, if you are good enough, the sales and good money will follow from there.

And before you talk yourself out of it, ask yourself "What if it works??????".

herefishy
10-05-2006, 07:17 PM
As I Have Worked for a company for 20 years and now gone out on my own.I am getting a little nervous about some companies asking me to install equipment 300miles away and when I give them a quote.They Reject it saying it's only two days work.They ask why so much ,when I explain about the travel time and overnight stay.I think because I am new at this that they can give all the out of area jobs that the normal sub contractor who they use.He don't want them.I find it frustrating that I get offered work but have to turn it down as it would not be cost effective.At the risk of missing out on bigger jobs later or expand my client base.

This reminds me of a topic, some years ago. I dug it up, and hereis my response:


Before you fret over the (refusal) of your proposal, firstly you need to have *qualified* the prospect (customer). What service (product) is he really in the market for?

You may think that we are all offering the same services, in heated competition for the same customer base, but I do not beleive that is true. Each of us provide a wide range of value, expertise, and quality of service to meet the service needs of the differing wants of the customer base.

Do you have a business plan? It doesn't have to be written.

(One) of the basis of my business is; I only perform medium and low temperature refrigeration sales and service. Why? Because I don't want to loose medium and low temp business because I screwed up the prep sink faucet install, or the air conditioner, or the vegetable steamer.

Well, there are prospects in the market who want a "one call fixes it all" servicer. That is not a good prospect for me, and I don't spend any time pursuing anyone who is looking for that type of service.

_________________________________________________


Now, I'm looking at the 25 year old walk in cooler condensing unit with the burn-out compressor, improperly sized expansion valve (by others previous), oily (leakage) pitted copper in the evap with a fan motor out anyway, no pump down solenoid on the medium temp system.... and oh! the condensing unit is an air conditioning condensor to begin with! I wouldn't have my name on it. I recommend (naturally) that the CU and evap are to be replaced. The customer suggests that since the thing has been working for 25 years at that location, he just wants the compressor replaced.


Well, guess what? The customer called the wrong service company, because I do not provide that type of service. However there are five or six other companies in town that specialize in these type of systems. They install and service them everyday!
___________________________________________________

I know that you get phone call, every day, "I need my fridge recharged".

I begin to qualify the customer, right away, "Well, sir if you need your fridge recharged, then you need to have the leak repaired also". Then the interesting conversation begins. The customer learns a lot about me, and more imnportantly, I learn what kind of service that the customer is really looking for. He may come to the realization that that charging the fridge every year is not normal, and that a proper fix may be more involved or costly than the *blow and go* service that he has been receiving on the equipment over the past couple of years. If that's the case, he's a good prospect and I get to work.

On the other hand, he may just wish to have a *recharge*, for whatever reason (and actually such a response tells me quite a bit about the customer - I don't want to do business with). I don't provide that kind of service. In that case, I'll probably be told, after explaining my service rates and some speculation as to what the cause of his complaint may be, that I will be called back. In that case, I continue to mind the phone until it rings again, next time with the good prospect needing the exact service that I have designed my business to perform.


___________________________________________________

There is no right or wrong in this. It is just meeting the needs of the customer, and there is pretty much a place in the market for everyone to make some dough. But you need to *QUALIFY* your customer, to assure that they are looking for the (type of) service that you provide.


Cheers!

djbe
10-05-2006, 08:29 PM
I think because I am new at this that they can give all the out of area jobs that the normal sub contractor who they use.He don't want them.

I find it frustrating that I get offered work but have to turn it down as it would not be cost effective.At the risk of missing out on bigger jobs later or expand my client base.

Theyr'e trying it on. They know you've only just started on your own and are trying to make a saving at your expense.

It can be frustrating but just accept it.

If your confident in your ability then don't sell yourself short and you should find that your best customers will come by word of mouth. A lot of them will be people that have been burned before by the cheap and cheerful brigade. Once they clock on to the fact that you get what you pay for they won't quibble about paying a reasonable rate.

Obviously there will always be the customer who wants and expects something for nothing but never be afraid to walk away.

Remember your not just there to give the customer good service, you want to make a profit while doing it:)

Andy T
10-05-2006, 10:54 PM
I agree with the last posts. I had, and have a business plan. I have noticed that all the companies talk of is, installing is where the money is. So they have focused on this side of business streamlining the work force down to men on installs. Not allowing any flexibility for large multi location contracts engineers off sick holidays, warranty, annual service cover. They don't want to employ an engineer permanent for peek times. That’s where I see my place in the market. Call me up get those jobs done that would stop them getting on with the installs. Including my own customer client base contracts and service and breakdowns.
I have started cold calling www.yell.com just type refrigeration pick an area and start cold calling(1 in 5 calls, offer work). Selling my self on the points above.
WHAT DO YOU THINK, shoot me down in flames, I can take it.
It's early days; I will adjust my methods of making my self-known to my client base. But I will not cut costs and ultimately standards of work to get my self employed. I find it hard not to take these silly offers as a comment on my abilities by some one that has never seen my standard of work and experience.

iceman007
11-05-2006, 07:01 PM
Andy,

When I had my business, I used to be around £300 per day for LABOUR. For materials I would mark up at about 30% or so on top of that, plus if there was travel involved I would usually make an allowance for that on top. It is based upon listening to the customers needs by asking the right sort of questions. Start with open type of questions, then probe to develop the previous answers, and never be afraid to close and ask for the business.

The only problem I had was I got quite big probably a little too quickly. In the end I was sub contracting out all my installation work, and running around doing the service work with the other technicians. Plus on top of that, the 24/7 lifestyle didn't really fit around a family that well, especially with young kids never seeing their Dad. The thing I would say is to grow steadily, because one job can finish a small company very quickly. I took on a vast installation 7 VRF systems, plus all the refrigeration cold stores on one contract and I can tell you I certainly had some sleepless nights, so keep it in perspective regardless of how tempting it might be.

Anyway, a little while ago I had an offer I couldn't refuse from a big company, they kept me as the refrigeration supervisor, less hours, better pay, more time at home so life is pretty good at the moment, and besides that anyone who knows me is aware I'm planning on a move to Australia in the next year or two.

I still have all my quote templates, service sheets and just about everything needed to run a business so if you PM me I can send you some things if it helps you out.

Good Luck and Best Wishes
James

seanito
18-02-2007, 07:43 PM
How can I calculate my day rate for as sub contractor?What is the normal overnight staying away from home expenses rate? What is the calculation for traveling expenses in my own van?

I generally charge £600 - £700 per man per day. Its better to keep your rates high. if you provide:-

Good quality services
Good Communication
Honesty
Reliability
And organistaional skills

A good client wont mind paying a little extra. But lack in one of those areas and your shooting yourself in the foot!

If a client want something for nothing as many tend to do, tell them to get lost (not in those words)...But it gives you confidence and dicipline and gradually it will strongly work in your favour

Abe
19-02-2007, 01:40 AM
Andy,

Good Luck and Best Wishes
James

James,

Been trying to send you a PM, but your box is full
:)

Abe

Climateman
27-03-2007, 04:23 PM
We pay subbies £24 p/h, travel time at same rate, mileage 40p per mile. Overnight allowance of £40 for board £10 subsistance. Don't charge any less than £20p/h.

Obviously rates vary depending where you are and what you need to get out of it to make being self employed pay. Hope this helps.

And good luck, the first 5 years are the hardest!

Climateman
27-03-2007, 04:23 PM
We pay subbies £24 p/h, travel time at same rate, mileage 40p per mile. Overnight allowance of £40 for board £10 subsistance. Don't charge any less than £20p/h.

Obviously rates vary depending where you are and what you need to get out of it to make being self employed pay. Hope this helps.

And good luck, the first 5 years are the hardest!

alphalaval
02-06-2010, 11:38 PM
please can i have some help from your experience, khalidmz786@hotmail.com