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Oceanlab
22-03-2016, 09:50 PM
Hi,

I am a service engineer in the UK, I travel to and from sites directly from home. I have a company issued van and my journey usually takes between 45 minutes to an hour. I do not get paid travel time. I have recently been made aware from other Engineers about the European Time Directive, meaning that travel time must now be counted as working time. I just wondered if anybody has had experience with this? Does this mean, as mobile engineers we are now to include travel time as part of our daily hours? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

al
23-03-2016, 11:32 AM
Travel time would always be part of your working day, afaik it is up to employers to pay it or not. Here, most companies pay it. The only travel time not accounted for would be that which you would spend travelling to work anyway,ie for office based staff to the office. Employers with mobile engineers could argue your first job of the day would not be applicable for pay?

sedgy
23-03-2016, 11:33 AM
ho oceanlab , you can look at this problem from both aspects form yours and your employers point of view if you get a job in the town where your employer is based one would get to site as if you had travelled from the office, whilst if you get a job 30 mile in the opposite direction one would set off 1hour later, give and take , they cannot complain, = sedgy

Gibbo
23-03-2016, 01:00 PM
I believe your referring to the EU court decision last September in a case against Tyco by one of their engineers in Spain.
The EU appeals court made the final decision that all travel for mobile workers who did not have a regular place of work should be classed as work. The problem is the judge did not give direction as to whether companies should pay for this or make it part of their daily hours. I know for sure my company has not mentioned anything to do with this. A friend of mine who works for one if the big facility companies have been told about it and that the company can't pay door to door but will try to keep the engineers more local and restrict their day to 10 hrs from door to door.
Gibbo

niceman
23-03-2016, 01:36 PM
Since when has a mobile refrig engineer been able to work only a 10 hour day, fridges break down at all hours, and l was never able to guarantee to fix them to a set time, you worked till the job was fixed. But apart from that, l had an argument with inland revenue years ago, as they said home to first job was private mileage and taxable, so l asked why did my employer charge the customer for it. I never heard any more from them.

Gibbo
23-03-2016, 02:32 PM
Since when has a mobile refrig engineer been able to work only a 10 hour day, fridges break down at all hours, and l was never able to guarantee to fix them to a set time, you worked till the job was fixed. But apart from that, l had an argument with inland revenue years ago, as they said home to first job was private mileage and taxable, so l asked why did my employer charge the customer for it. I never heard any more from them.
Depends if your Opt In or Opt out for the EU Working Directive.

Grizzly
23-03-2016, 05:49 PM
Hi Oceanlab.
There is and has been for quite a long time a huge difference in terms and conditions everywhere in Europe.
From those that I have spoken to in Germany and France where works councils rule.
A reasonable and fair compromise has occurred.
Travel time is only a small part of it! Wait until you look into the Standby Engineer rota system.
That gets very interesting!
Anyway, did these rules apply to you when you joined?
If so, you have no beef other than you want More!
If not so when you joined then you have a genuine beef! I doubt your terms are going to change however,
So live with it and put up with it or Move on when something better comes up.
If you don't get paid travel time does your company expect you to be onsite by a certain time?
Leave early and get on site early and claim overtime for site!
That way you are getting a little more for your time!
I don't know how it will go down mind.

Question.
If you were travelling to a fixed site say 45 mins to Ihr away in a company paid for vehicle and being paid

Your hourly rate, would you view that as a fair Rate / Job?
You are talking Monday to Friday Right?

Grizzly

cadwaladr
23-03-2016, 09:16 PM
I had an issue years ago with an employer,it was a family firm not a lot of engineers and callout was on a rota basis,every year the boss would come back from his annual meet with the accountant and rattle on about our use of the van to go back and to the works so my answer was no problem I will come to work under my own steam and if the engineer on callout needs assistance tell him to ring the accountant!

Grizzly
23-03-2016, 10:03 PM
Cool Answer!
Grizzly

Oceanlab
23-03-2016, 10:06 PM
I had an issue years ago with an employer,it was a family firm not a lot of engineers and callout was on a rota basis,every year the boss would come back from his annual meet with the accountant and rattle on about our use of the van to go back and to the works so my answer was no problem I will come to work under my own steam and if the engineer on callout needs assistance tell him to ring the accountant!

Thanks for the replies, and yes I was referring to the EU court decision last September. My contract states that my travel time to and from work does not form part of my working hours and that I must start my first job on site when my hours begin, then finish my last job, on site when my hours end. However, the van is for business use only, no private use is permitted, but surely if I am not being paid for travel to and from work, then that is my own personal time? my other concern is am I actually insured to travel in my own time and what is the definition of 'business use'

niceman
23-03-2016, 10:29 PM
Oceanlab,surely knowing if you are insured to drive from home to work is something you URGENTLY need to get in writing from your employer, if it is business mileage and you are insured then you must be working. If you are not insured, don't drive it.

cadwaladr
24-03-2016, 12:21 AM
And in the UK,the police are very keen on the rule of law when it comes to coverage of insurance a friend of mine who has a small van for commuting with a few tools in the back was told that it was borderline if insuring it as a private vehicle was legitimate,sorry to go off topic but you do need to clarify the matter with your employer because you will take the points and fine.

abp32
25-03-2016, 09:53 AM
some companies pay travel time some companies don't , who are you going to work for ?

Magoo
26-03-2016, 01:08 AM
If you are employed to operate from home , after logging into base and/or given work after ringing from home, your employment starts when you leave home.
With vehicle tracking your employer will know when you leave home, so no going back to bed.
So with computers/phones etc., you log in on site and log out when finished waiting for next service call.
Saves you driving to service base in your time, a win win situation for you and your employer.
If your employer had half a brain he would keep your localalized to save fuel and time expenses.

cadwaladr
26-03-2016, 01:52 AM
That's known as common sense,but sadly it's lacking in our world of today,similar to leaving refrigerant at main customers premises that have a content that means it's a crucial plant bearing in mind when the plant breaks sods law says the wholesalers are closed,working for myself has dictated that I have to think out of the box.