PDA

View Full Version : Repair Work, what's included/not?



Good^Man
12-01-2016, 04:33 AM
I'm in the middle of a row over costs. I had a sole trader go to site and do repair work on an aircon system, and now customer querying the bill. Been going on for a month. I am wavering on some of it as customer seems to have a case. Just wondering if I am being too fair and agreeable to the customer and wanted to hear what others might do in this situation.

a) Engineer looked at the job two weeks previous and after I rounded up the new part to braze in I sent him back there to do the repair.

(This row is about the bill for this second visit, following)

b) After getting tools into work area, engineer goes off to the loo, spending 20 mins in there (customer escorting him, waiting outside). This does sound a bit much. Five minute jobbies should be part of the bill but, well?

c) Engineer then realised he needed a copper tee, looked in van, no tee. So, off to the nearest to get the fitting, which took 90 mins. If it was a call out and he came to site cold, them this is just bad luck and part of the bill. But having looked over the job already and now he's on site and does not have the fitting -- well, what would you say? Seems hard to dispute with customer's moan.

d) System on test over night and next day engineer starts work. Two hours later takes a tea break for 40 mins. (There was work he could do - it is not like he was waiting for the vac to finish so it was a proper tea break.) Again customer unhappy as the engineer could have had a cuppa from nearby machine while doing the work. Or if a stop-work-tea-break, fine but customer doesn't want to pay out for it. Maybe this was some kind of early lunch break - who pays, though? Sole/me/customer?

e) One other thing is the reclaim bottle that was spotted as not-sealed with the shrink-wrap over valve, ie not bought just for this job but being filled up before returning to reclaim depot. Recovered gas was just 650g. Engineer wants full cost of reclaim bottle, customer querying it. In hindsight I should have just charged a pro-rata, plus-a-bit, for the bottle -- is that how you would do it?

I have my own ideas on this but wanted to bounce it off others to see how you might play this kind of scenario.

Grizzly
12-01-2016, 08:10 AM
Hi Good^Man!
Was this Subbie a fridge guy or a plumber/ (Joke)
I guess you won't be sending him back to the site?
The good relationship that is built up with a customer is gained overtime, with all working together.

Not the sign and bill culture that is starting to prevail.

Whatever you do you need to rebuild / repair your customers trust and it sounds as if your customer is not a numpty either.
Only you know the contract / site details and the people you choose to use.

Please bear in mind your subbie may of taken the sharp end of this awkward customer, who knows?
Have you actually talked to the customer face to face? Has anyone since the disagreement?

Long distance disputes are destined to fail, you already know the customers queries are justified.
(To him anyway !)
The billing side is not my remit! Would way up the capitulation costs against this and future potential work!
But ultimately to "Talk" is the answer. Both to the subbie and customer.

Which way you go is then your fully informed decision.


There is only one way out of a mess and that is to clean it up. To walk away will only tarnish matters.

Maybe some of the other "Guys!" can elaborate further?
Grizzly

Good^Man
12-01-2016, 01:59 PM
Thanks, Grizzly.

Yes. I definitely prefer to go see the man and talk it out but I wanted to get my head straight beforehand. ie hear a strong defence and a strong sales approach and balance that out before I step into his office (me being a good customer-friendly type, sometimes too good).

And then have a word with the subby.

cool hand fluke
12-01-2016, 09:08 PM
I done this job a few weeks ago,
Arrived on site and found an ac system short on gas. I found the leak point, advised of the parts needed.
So I went back when the parts arrived. I dragged all my kit to the system, I started reclaiming and the bloody heavens opened. So I cover up the equipment and had to dry myself off in the toilet.
So I then fitted the parts ect.
Banged nitro in system and sprayed my joints, all good.
So I leave it under pressure over night.

I return the next day, and a bloody pressure drop.
Inspected the pipe work and found another leak on a t section.
Shot off to the wholesales to collect a t and returned.
Fitted the tee, quick p test and put on vac.
While on vac I grabbed a bit a lunch.
Returned to the system, charged and tested.
And now all I get is grief.

����Only joking, I wasn't me. just playing devils advocate, sounds to me like he needed to fill his day in this quiet time.

If it was me I would only charge of half a bottle of reclaim.
Bryan ��
Bryan

charlie patt
12-01-2016, 09:33 PM
I would speak to the subie first get his side of it one of my engineers has a very good phrase his side the other side and somewhere in middle is the truth if he left system on pressure check he can't be all bad speak to him strike happy medium with customer and keep the work we can't carry everything in a van but u would expect a t to be kept but it happens

monkey spanners
12-01-2016, 09:36 PM
This is what i consider to be reasonable, (also i do not have all the facts, and am just some guy on the internet...)

b) Billing 20 minutes for a toilet break is unreasonable, i would expect the subby to take care of his ablutions before or after work, though accept people can be taken ill at any time. (though if the customer was literally outside the door he got what he deserved)

c) Could go either way, why was a T needed? Did the old one break during disassembly? (not really the guys fault assuming he can work competently) Should one have been supplied with the new part seeing as you supplied the materials? Or did he not carry out a thorough enough assessment of the job?

d) I would usually only stop for 10 or 15 minutes for lunch and it would not be billable to the customer, unless say i have nothing to do due to pressure testing or vacuuming etc.

e) I have my own reclaim bottles, often the wholesalers are out of stock, or you end up having to get a 45kg bottle because they have no 10kg in stock, so mine would not have any seals on either. I think as far as the regulations are concerned you are not allowed to mix refrigerants from different sites in the same bottle, a bit like hiring a skip, its the same price no matter how much you put in. ( I am not 100% on this)

Sounds like the contractor you used left something to be desired, but it also sounds like your customer is trouble, i think i would want rid of both of them :D

Grizzly
12-01-2016, 11:05 PM
Hi Guys!
I think your answer was clever Luke!
Because you remind us all how easy it is to side with the customer.
But how one sided things can appear!

Which makes Charlie's answer all the more relevant.

MS. You are far from being just some Guy off the internet!
Your experience and knowledge continues to educate us all.
Your comment about the Tee made me smile and in a similar Vein, was why I jokingly asked if he was a plumber?

Subbies are normally very diplomatic given that repeat business is how they earn their money.

It's an interesting scenario all the same.

Good Luck on sorting this one! Good^Man!
Grizzly

The Viking
13-01-2016, 01:11 AM
OK,

Interesting questions and scenarios but let's take a step back...

What does your contracts say?
As this was a planned return visit, was it done at a fixed price or on time and materials basis?
If fixed price, did the job come in more expensive?
If time and materials, had the customer been given a budget cost?

In the end of the day it is all due to politics (and I'm not a good politician), how much is the customer's repeat business / future works likely to be worth? How much grief are you likely to get from this customer over each and every future invoice? Or, sometimes perhaps it is really down to economics... Is it worth your time quibbling over £100.00 when in the same time you have to spend arguing you could earn £1000.00?

How you deal with your sub contractor is a completely different issue that should be of little concern when you deal with the customer, to the customer and in your dealings with the customer (assuming here that the customer's contract is with yourself) there is no difference in the engineer being a subbie compared to him being a direct employee.

Had you asked your sub contractor for a fixed price repair or did you let him run on time and materials?
If fixed price, did the job come in more expensive?
If time and materials, had you been given a budget cost?

How you deal with your customer is of little reference to your dealings with the subbie, his contract is with you. How you decide to deal with him really is down to how valuable he is, how much profit you are likely to make on using him for future works, what value he adds to your organisation.

Whatever the outcome is there are some lessons to be learnt on how to plan jobs and quote customers. Sadly, sometimes in life we do have to pay for the lessons we receive.

:cool:

Grizzly
13-01-2016, 07:42 AM
Sadly, sometimes in life we do have to pay for the lessons we receive]
Quote of the week!
Grizzly

Magoo
13-01-2016, 11:16 PM
Clock watching clients are painful. So take great delight in answering all the stupid questions in finite detail wasting time and their money. 20 minutes in the dunny is a bit over the top, perhaps he needed a pencil to work out the problem.

Good^Man
14-01-2016, 05:37 AM
Thanks all. Very good range of ideas that I can make good use of when I tackle this one.

Grizzly
14-01-2016, 07:12 AM
Thanks for a more unusual and interesting post!
Situations are always easy to criticise, but not necessarily easy to resolve.
Good Luck.
Grizzly