City & Guilds F gas renewable everuy 6 yrs?

[Grizzly]

Who snuck that one in?
I have just read on the HRP F gas site www.fgasman.co.uk (http://www.fgasman.co.uk/) that CITB is renewable every 3 yrs.
And C&G is renewable every 6 yrs?
What's going on guys?
Obviously so incensed that I cannot spell every!
Grizzly

[martinw58]

i believe C&G dose not need to be renewed until the regs change

[Grizzly]

i believe C&G dose not need to be renewed until the regs change

So did I but read their posts on the link I put above.
Page 3 of their F gas questions.
"How often does F gas need to be renewed?"
I quote -
"Your F Gas certificate is dependant upon which Goverment body originally supplied your qualification. The City & Guilds version can last up to 6 years with the CITB lasting 3 years. Chances are an alternative refrigerant or a new procedure will become legal forcing us all to complete a refresher course."

Is this statement somewhat misleading or biased?
Grizzly

[monkey spanners]

Thought CITB was every 5 years?!

[martinw58]

dose rob white have any idea on this

[martinw58]

found this looks like no need to retest c&g

F Gas Training 2015 Clarification - 29/8/2014 DEFRA and the Environment Agency have confirmed that existing individual F Gas Certificates issued in accordance with the 2006 F Gas Regulations remain valid under the new 2014 Regulation EC517/2014 (article 10 paragraph 7). This is a great relief for the 30,000 or so UK operatives who are already F Gas Qualified in the UK.
However those certificates only remain valid “in accordance with the conditions under which they were originally issued” which means that if your certificate has an expiry date, you will need to undertake a reassessment. Reassessments are now available for those holding expired CITB Certificates. For those holding City & Guilds 2079 (or relevant units within the 7189 or 6187 qualifications) no reassessment is necessary.
The UK, like all member states, has an obligation to ensure that any F Gas certificates issued in future cover the changes that have been introduced by the 2014 Regulations – such as the different leak checking requirements and knowledge of the phase down timetable and new specific bans - some of which come in from January 2015. Both the CITB and City & Guilds F Gas Certificates will be updated in line with the changes to the knowledge element of the assessment in the required timescale so that anyone new to the industry taking their F Gas Certificate is up to date.
There are still a number of uncertainties in the 2014 F Gas Regulation on which UK Government and industry is awaiting clarification on. For example the requirement for already F gas Certified individuals to have access to information regarding technologies to replace HFCS, and existing regulatory requirements for alternative refrigerants. There is also a clause in the new Regulations that says Member States have to make available training for anyone who wants to update their knowledge. The Commission is planning to carry out a review of existing legislation covering training for the safe-handling of alternative refrigerants and, if appropriate, submit a legislative proposal. The results of this review are expected in 2017.
The 2014 European F Gas Regulation 517/2014 is directly applicable in UK law. However UK legislation is needed to cover the compliance and enforcement measures. A draft of that legislation, which will repeal the previous UK F Gas Regulation, is due for consultation this autumn. The full text of the 2014 European F Gas Regulation is available at http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.150.01.0195.01.ENG
Further guidance on how the new F Gas changes will impact end users and contractors is being prepared by ACRIB and by European Contractors’ association AREA and will be available shortly. Check this website www.acrib.org.uk for updates and come to the ACRIB F Gas update conference on 11th November in London.
ACRIB is an umbrella organisation for the UK RACHP industry comprising trade associations and professional institutes: AMDEA, ARC, B&ES, BFFF, CIBSE, CRT, FETA, FSDF, IOR. It provides the ACRIB Skillcard scheme for the recognition of individual operative qualifications in working with the full range of refrigerants. For more information see www.acrib.org.uk

[Grizzly]

Thanks for the Input Martin.
Appreciated.
Grizzly

[Rob White]

.

Morning Guys.

I don't know where that came from and I think it is wrong.

As I understand the two certification bodies, City & Guilds and CITB
work to there own time frames.

CITB are renewable every 5 years and that is a fact because their certs have
renewing dates on them (which I see) that are dated for five years.

City & guilds on paper do not need updating, unless the law changes or until
new refrigerants are invented.

There has been a big change that came into effect last January. It has caught quite
a few people out (even though it has been advertised for 18 months) and has caused
some confusion.

Fact, as of now.

If you have a City & Guilds 2079 you hold a valid qualification and do not have to update.
If you hold a CITB J11 you hold a valid qualification but you will have to update it every five years.

The confusion lies with the registration companies. ACRIB are the the only organisation
that registers individual engineers and it is done through the CSCS card (the passport to work card)
and that does need updating and there is an argument with the powers that be, who are arguing
about continuous professional development.

CPD (continuous professional development) needs to be done by all trades people to prove
we are uptodate with the new requirements, laws and such. Take a gas fitter for example, they
have to prove competent on a regular basis and the powers that be think that fridge guys should
do the same.

At the moment the only way to prove competence is the F-gas cert (whether you agree with it or not).

If one organisation does CPD and the other does not it causes confusion and that is where ACRIB
come in. To prove you are alowed onto a building site the CSCS (ACRIB) passport card is required
and they require renewal ever five years. That causes a problem for somebody who has a C&G 2079
qual because they can't prove CPD.

That is where we are now. As of now if you have a CITB J11 you need to renew every five years.
If you have a C&G 2079 you are qualified until the law changes.

ACRIB require renewal every 5 years and they have said they will not recognise quals that
are older than 6 years, so ACRIB are forcing City and Guilds to come into line with CPD requirements.

It is a political, big business hot potato and we the engineer are somewhat in the middle.

Regards

Rob

.

[Rob White]

.

See ACRIB site

http://www.acrib.org.uk/M6LEVN80958

From their site.

"Under the 2014 revision of the F Gas Regulation there is no requirement for re-certification
and existing certificates remain valid in line with their conditions of issue. Individuals who
already hold an F Gas Certificate should familiarise themselves with the new requirements
of these regulations but they do not need to be reassessed".

Rob

.

[Grizzly]

Acrib have got to do something to maintain their Income, because they are not the only player nowadays.
We stopped having a ARIB card several Years ago and Now have SKILL Cards. Which display our individual Qualifications and are accepted by All.

With these we are registered with Refcom.

So with the bias towards ACRIB there is a self interest and repeat business formula which I find rather unsavoury!

I understand your Dillema Rob and you have always helped on this forum, long may you continue to do so!
Grizzly