60 HZ connection

[Peter_1]

We have to make a quote for 2 splits onboard a Navy vessel on 60 Hz. We want to install a Fujitsu, Mitsubishi or Daikin. Anyone an idea if the standard units we buy in Europe (240/50Hz) can function on a 60Hz main supply?
Are units for the US different units then?

[kefah]

is the voltage in the 60Hz main supply is 240 also

[Rob White]

.

Hello Peter.

I'm not sure but I have asked one of our technical guys
and as soon as I know, I'll let you know.

I don't know why, I feel like saying yes they will work on 60Hz
but I will find out for you and get back.

Regards

Rob

.

[chemi-cool]

Yes Peters, no problem with the sort of connection you use, 60hz is not an issue, voltage, no of phases and amp drawing is important.

Good luck.

[hookster]

The equipment you specify will have to be approved by the vessel insurance. i.e. Lloyds, DNV etc. for marine usage.

50Hz equipment operates at 20% increase in speed at 60Hz. There is also the issue for 3ph equipment onboard not being earthed and should a hull earth be used is the electronics safe?

It would be better to ensure equipment is marine grade before quoting as a domestic split will fall apart in a marine environment. The are just not built for harsh environments.

[Grizzly]

Hi Peter.
Hooksters comments tell me He has maritime experience.
I used to work on Marine for J&E Hall and as the equipment supplied was bespoke there was rarely an issue.
Particularly as Old time (Non Digital) controls where set up in situ. With Step controllers and electromechanical time clocks adjusted to suit. however a 50hz unit will run faster with 60hz.
Imagine controlling over 24hrs, when the clock thinks approx. 28.8 hrs has elapsed!
VSD's are another potential issue!
Bear in mind though a modern digital system is something else.
You are wise to question this and I would also recommend that you confer with the Manufacturers.
Most I assume would be able to supply something.
Grizzly

[al]

I've fitted inverter splits to boats before, requested by clients so no come back on us if units failed early, average life span about 4 years, i think a few of them were 60hz but i could be wrong.

[Rob White]

.

I have had it on good authority that unless specified most AC systems
are not designed for 60Hz and definitely not for marine applications.

It's to do with generated 3ph, neutrals and earths.

Regards

Rob

.

[chemi-cool]

.

I have had it on good authority that unless specified most AC systems
are not designed for 60Hz and definitely not for marine applications.

It's to do with generated 3ph, neutrals and earths.

Regards

Rob

.

I dont agree.
All compressors and fan motors work on both 50hz and 60hz, its only about turning speed and capacity.
Electronics don't care about hz, it runs on 12vdc or 24vdc.
Neutral and earth has nothing to do with it.
The stories about transformers getting hot is an old myth.

I do agree about the unit enclosure and coils, if you want it to last marine life, it must be built from SS and Titanium.

[xxargs]

Is almost no problem if 50Hz motor running on 60 Hz if Voltage slightly increase, but opposite - running true US manufacture 60 Hz motors/transformer on 50 Hz system can make problem with current rush depend of saturate iron core and unnecessary heating if not take down voltage under 200 Volt (191 Volt)

many compressors make for international market are designed for using both 50 and 60 Hz environment and have necessary margin for both case.

If inverter compressor - not care of frequency if going from 50 to 60 Hz (but opposite are different with US-equipment and smaller capacitor inside...) ie. input power rectified to DC and compressor feeds from inverter with different frequency anyway, but control system can struggle and clock going wrong speed and inverter working noisy (if working is noise-optimized to 50 Hz mains but feeded with 60 Hz) if not can select between 50 or 60 Hz using in some menu...

12/24 Volt?? - I think we talk about much bigger machine than can solve with Danfoss 12/24V small compressors...

[Rob White]

>

I have spoken to the manufacturer and the tolerance for inputs
are well within the limits, but the problem is controlling inverters
and then earthing and neutrals to them.

Most AC manufacturers will not give a warranty if used in the marine
environment.

That is from the manufacturer themselves, might work, will work but the
issue, if it doesn't work is the warranty / guarantee.

Regards

Rob

.

[Peter_1]

Thanks for all the replies so far. The units are Mitsubishi inverter units, so fully electronic controlled and speed is re-generated by the internal power PCB's. So speed will not change I think if connected to a 60 HZ unit. It's onboard a Navy vessel and we don't need special approvals for this. Only the Navy autorities will give it a go for me.
Capacity we need is 2 x 6 kW (+/- 18.000 BTU) cooling capacity (radar power room)
We already made a separate offer with a stainless steel enclosure we will make (OEM) for both indoor and outdoor and with 60 Hz Bitzer or Tecumseh compressors.

[Grizzly]

Sounds an interesting job Peter!
Well Done.
Grizzly

[Peter_1]

I do agree about the unit enclosure and coils, if you want it to last marine life, it must be built from SS and Titanium.

This application is for the A960 Godetia Vessel and it will be taken out of service within 5 years. There are standard 60 Hz Panasonic on/off airco's on board inside the ship since 20 years without any corrosion.

[chemi-cool]

12242

So that's how you go fishing......:D

Best of luck with the project.

[MikeHolm]

Ummmmm, Peter, is it 240V and earth or is it 2 x 120V + earth like we have. Not sure if it matters.

[Rob White]

Thanks for all the replies so far. The units are Mitsubishi inverter units, so fully electronic controlled and speed is re-generated by the internal power PCB's. .

Hello Peter.

Can you clarify which Mitsubishi.

Mitsi Electric or MHI?

Regards

Rob

.

[Peter_1]

Normally Electrci but we can go also for MHI.

[Rob White]

Normally Electrci but we can go also for MHI.

I have it on good authority that MHI will not work under
those conditions and if by chance they do MHI will not
guarantee them.

That is in the UK, it might be different with other suppliers.

Regards

Rob

.

[Peter_1]

Thanks Rob