Pub Fridge Help

[mcarthyryan]

Hi Guys,

Hoping someone can give me some points please?

My friends pub fridge has stopped working, and they have lost £100's worth of steak :(

The problem is:
- The fridge turns urns on ok, and the display is showing ~20'C, which is correct, and the thermostat changes if you hold it/put ice on it, so I think this is working ok.

- The controller has 240v going in to it on one side of the relay, but has no output, but when you power the fridge up, the controller seems to 'click' as if the internal relay is activating, but there is still no output. So, I think the controller may be at fault?

- I could have put 240v on to the compressor to make it start up, but not being a refrigeration engineer, I wasn't confident doing this (I'm a sparky) in case something was wrong.

So to summarise, you can turn the fridge on, all looks ok, but nothing happens, and nothing cools.

The fridge is a 'Polar Refrigeration G594' and the controller is a Ektron REK 31.

Am I correct in thinking that this controller should be sending the 240v to the compressor? The small LED does go under the fridge symbol when I hear the 'click'.

The owner of the fridge did say it was making a humming noise, but has now stopped? Not sure what this was about....




Thank you for any help
Ryan

[cadwaladr]

It may have lost its control protection circuit some have high pressure outputs,low pressure outputs is it a cabinet or a small room,cabinets cc would have a door switch t h ink we need more info and pics of the compressor unit.

[mcarthyryan]

Hi,

I don't have a pic of the compressor, but I will try to get one.

This is the controller, and fridge:

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/mcarthyryan/IMG_4453.jpg (http://s570.photobucket.com/user/mcarthyryan/media/IMG_4453.jpg.html)

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/mcarthyryan/Fridge.jpg (http://s570.photobucket.com/user/mcarthyryan/media/Fridge.jpg.html)

From the diagram on the controller, terminals 1 and 2 have 240v, the PTC probe seems to be working, Terminal 12 have 240v on it, but no output is on terminal 10.

Where do you find the control protection circuit?



Thanks a lot

[install monkey]

power it up and when the red light comes on (demand) tap the controller with a hammer, if it clicks and starts up the controller is goosed- get the parameters off the controller so you can reprogram it correctly

[install monkey]

http://www.gastro-mercado.eu/xtshop/media/products/4754011%20-%20manual%20GB%204754011.pdf
page 19 for parameters list

[mcarthyryan]

Hi,

install monkey, thanks for the reply.

When the fridge is powered up, the temperature is displayed, then a short while after, there is a small click, and the small red LED comes on.....but that is it, the compressor doesn't start, due to what I think is because there is no output on terminal 10?

Thank you for finding that PDF too.

Probable the controller is at fault then?



Thanks

[monkey spanners]

Sounds like the relay in the controller that powers the compressor has failed, bypass it to see if the compressor and fans all run. Pointless buying new controller if it was killed by a seized compressor or there are other problems.

If it runs ok, then what i usually do is fit a bigger relay externally for the compressor and use the (new) controller to switch the bigger relay. Will need some rewiring to do but he internal relays are barely big enough for the job.

[cadwaladr]

fit an elliwell id chill to it and reset the set point.

[mcarthyryan]

Thanks for the replies guys.

monkey spanners, good idea fitting a bigger relay! That won't be too hard to do. I guess its fairly safe to try to start the compressor for a few seconds? I didn't think that it could have been the compressor which actually made the controller fail.

cadwaladr, is an elliwell better than the current one which is installed? Would it just go straight in, with the only thing to 'set up' would be the set point? No other programming required? Are they a better controller?



Thanks a lot

[chemi-cool]

Did the simple thought of calling a fridgy crossed your mind?

i believe it will be the right thing to do when there is a problem with the fridge.

[cadwaladr]

I prefer elliwell,fitting a secondary relay is a good idea and use the existing probes as you can change the format from ntc/ptc although for ease you maybe better to stick with the original where in the UK are you?

[Toolman]

Just before you go crazy changing controller you need to confirm that its actually the controller ! Unplug it undo wires into terminal 10 & 12 join them together with a connector ( or put them both in terminal 12 to join them )
plug the fridge back in and see if the compressor runs . The clicking noise could be faulty starting device etc.

[Rob White]

Did the simple thought of calling a fridgy crossed your mind?

i believe it will be the right thing to do when there is a problem with the fridge.

I agree, see post below.


Just before you go crazy changing controller you need to confirm that its actually the controller ! Unplug it undo wires into terminal 10 & 12 join them together with a connector ( or put them both in terminal 12 to join them )
plug the fridge back in and see if the compressor runs . The clicking noise could be faulty starting device etc.


If he was a fridge man he would know this.
We are too quick to help sometimes and I know am guilty
of that, I wounder what would happen if a fridgie asked
for advise on changing a consumer unit on an electrical
forum.

I think in Australia electricians are allowed to work on fridge
systems but fridgies are not allowed to work on electrical
circuits? It's a similar thing here plumbers, electricians,
handymen and anyone else all think that they don't need the
fridge man now because all the component are interchangeable
and anyone can diagnose a fridge fault can't they?

Rob

.

[mcarthyryan]

Hi Guys,

I appreciate that this would ideally be a job for a fridge engineer, but my friends pub has been struggling over winter, and then the extra cost of all the food which was wasted due to the fridge warming up hasn't helped them :(

They ordered a replacement controller the same, and I have fitted it, input the parameters from the link above. The fridge is now cooling, so they are happy :)

Although, when I installed it, it was showing a PF1 and PF2 error. I managed to clear the PF1 error by fitting a new PTC Probe (which is mounted inside the fridge itself, and this allowed the fridge to cool down.
But the PF2 fault is still on the display (flashing). I'm not sure why this is, as there is only the one probe wired in to the controller!? Does anyone know how to remove the fault? I imagine it must be a setting in the parameters? Its a 32ed controller.


Thank you for your help.

[cadwaladr]

There must be a way to eliminate probe 2 in the parameters guidance

[mcarthyryan]

Does anyone know how to disable probe 2 please?

[cadwaladr]

Have you got a another probe to wire to the controller and put it into the cabinet

[mcarthyryan]

Have you got a another probe to wire to the controller and put it into the cabinet

Hi,
I could get one and fit it.

There doesn't seem any settings for it on the parameter list, so would that just wire in and that would be it? In theory?


Thank you for your help :)

[cadwaladr]

It should work,because you have no probe in the controller it throws that code.

[martinw58]

2nd probe goes between 7&8 and is placed on the evaporator coil

[mcarthyryan]

Ok, thanks guys :)

There wasn't a probe before in terminals 7&8, but I can fit one no problem.

There doesn't seem to be any parameters for a second probe though, do you think that might be an issue? Last page on this link http://www.gastro-mercado.eu/xtshop/media/products/4754011%20-%20manual%20GB%204754011.pdf




Thanks a lot

[mcarthyryan]

Ok, thanks guys :)

There wasn't a probe before in terminals 7&8, but I can fit one no problem.

There doesn't seem to be any parameters for a second probe though, do you think that might be an issue? Last page on this link http://www.gastro-mercado.eu/xtshop/media/products/4754011%20-%20manual%20GB%204754011.pdf




Thanks a lot

[martinw58]

d 10 and d17are parameters for 2nd probe this is used on systems with a heater for the defrost

[mcarthyryan]

Hi Guys,
I've finally got another probe, so I am going to pop up to my friends this week to install it, and hopefully get rid of the code.

I will wire it in to terminals 7 & 8.

I will adjust parameters d10 and d17.

But where does the probe go? Just there wasn't one before, and I cannot see any holes to insert it anywhere?

Does anyone have any pointers please?




Thanks a lot

[Tayters]

Evenin'

REK 31 has a setting to select if it is a 31 or 31D (D for defrost I guess)
REK 32 is a controller with a defrost, can't be changed like the 31

Got the parameters here: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC0QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hvacrinfo.com%2FControllers%2FREK3_man.pdf&ei=Jf8JVejdM4LN7Qbc6oGoBQ&usg=AFQjCNEdtmAtPj3tiMN0UhPtTqZH2dzNZQ
You can try and change D37 if it is on there and see what happens. See from the list it changes between 31 and 31D.
Otherwise you will need to wire the defrost probe in and feed it down with the evaporator motor wire into the coil and wedge it into the top of the coil somewhere.

If you fancy another way, bit bodge it and scarper but wire the probe in, leave it on top of the case and D10 and D17 to 50*C. Fan I think is wired to run all the time so D17 probably redundant.
Like this your defrost probe will read room temp. When defrosting it will terminate at 50*C or D9 time (20 mins odd every 6 hours would be a good starting point). As long as the defrost probe stays below 50*C then no problem. Otherwise if it terminates too early set probe offset D18 to +20 and give the chef a sweat band!

Cheers,
Andy.