PDA

View Full Version : Blue Box Chiller = Stumped! (UK Slang for confused)







Grizzly
15-01-2015, 10:34 PM
Hi Guys.
I was wondering if anyone can unravel the gem I came across today?
Went to site to do a Straight forward "Look and Log" on 3 Blue Box Beta SLN 2002 Air cooled Water Chillers.
With their version of the pCO2 controllers, each chiller has 2 large scrolls Danfoss / Maneurope style. To each, of their 2 circuits.
2 coolers are fine, whereas on the last cooler 1 circuit is randomly locked out on "High Press Frigo Circuit 2"?

Ok HP Fault, straight forward enough! Wrong
Discharge pressure readout (Via a Druck pressure transducer) rises and falls as expected.
Discharge Pressure switch (1 per Comp) wired in series, so a common fault and have reset buttons.
Basically I disconnected the wiring for the 2 HP related Inputs on the Controller.
I did a “3pin reboot!”, checked for loose terminals etc.
Continually pressing the Alarm reset to see the alarm clear then reappear!
Even though the discharge pressures were well below their trip and differential settings.
Finally the alarm reset itself.
Circuit 2 ran and tripped before I could monitor the fans running and the displayed HP pressure.
Try again, this time the plant ran with discharge rising and the fans modulating with system pressure rise and fall. All Good!
Chiller goes off at setpoint. 5 minutes later with chiller at standstill (Stat satisfied!) the chiller goes into alarm. Displaying “High Press Frigo Circuit 2”?
Any ideas?
Thanks Grizzly
Just to add I have maintenance and service access codes so I cross checked settings I can access and they are the same as the other two chillers.
Whether a setting is corrupted at factory level I cannot say.

al
15-01-2015, 10:48 PM
Any way that the motor overload/thermistor is wired to the same input?

install monkey
15-01-2015, 11:10 PM
is there a low druck transducer- swap the dc outputs at the controller to see if it alarms on low pressure - if so intermittant defective transducer.
plan B - manually run the cond fans to see if when circuit cycles on stat it doesnt alarm

Grizzly
16-01-2015, 07:07 AM
Thanks for the Ideas al and Install.
Good solid points.
I did refer to a wiring diagram Al and I may have missed the overload / thermistor input.
Worth checking all the same, if correct that could just be why the alarm is so random?

Hi IM.
A good point also and definitely worth checking. Plan B ( Similar anyway)was used and discounted.
It would seem its a spurious alarm rather than an actual physical one.
Hopefully the Druck's are on schraeders? or it's quite a job to swap transducers. Swapping at the controller is a good idea.

Two things confuse me and that is this use of Frigo (Italian) in the alarm readout.
There is no mention of it in that form listed within the English Manual. It may be a red Herring all the same?
Cheers Grizzly

RusBuka
16-01-2015, 09:30 PM
Any way that the motor overload/thermistor is wired to the same input?

It making "no water flow"

Grizzly
16-01-2015, 10:22 PM
It making "no water flow"
You Got Me there my friend!
I am not sure what you are saying?
Grizzly

fridge_bloke
17-01-2015, 01:03 PM
I know it's probably too late now and I don't have an answer either but , the PCo in bluebox have had a few issues where wiring has been not quite right , fan faults comming up because the wrong input has been used on the PCo , or a fan fault that's Actualy a phase protection relay , thermistor alarms due to high ambient heating up the PCo In the cab.
It's not much help, all I'm saying is you might want to check the wiring out against the diag

redroge
17-01-2015, 03:13 PM
Thanks for the Ideas al and Install.
Good solid points.
I did refer to a wiring diagram Al and I may have missed the overload / thermistor input.
Worth checking all the same, if correct that could just be why the alarm is so random?

Hi IM.
A good point also and definitely worth checking. Plan B ( Similar anyway)was used and discounted.
It would seem its a spurious alarm rather than an actual physical one.
Hopefully the Druck's are on schraeders? or it's quite a job to swap transducers. Swapping at the controller is a good idea.

Two things confuse me and that is this use of Frigo (Italian) in the alarm readout.
There is no mention of it in that form listed within the English Manual. It may be a red Herring all the same?
Cheers Grizzly

Frigo = refrigerating

Grizzly
17-01-2015, 05:08 PM
Hi Guys!
fridge_bloke, Useful info thanks.
This issue has recently occurred and what you say is where I have been heading.
Meaning a spurious fault / input signal?
However the wiring has not been altered at all to my knowledge, since install in 2003.
redroge,
Your clarification makes sense. Thanks!
Grizzly

fridge_bloke
21-01-2015, 12:50 PM
put a new fan in on a beta 2002 today. About half and hour after start up I got an alarm ( hp frigo circ 2) , I didn't get a chance to really look in to it as the fault cleared itself, weirdly enough after unscrewing cir1 transducer

setrite
21-01-2015, 04:55 PM
It could be a software malfunction.

Grizzly
21-01-2015, 05:24 PM
Thanks Guys.
Any input is useful!
Grizzly

mark957
23-01-2015, 05:18 PM
Hi GrizzlyWhen you experience high pressure alarms from digital input is not caused by high pressure then the input is acquired properly.
is the case here in the controller Carel PCO2 has input defective.
to overcome the problem queso Carel provides a service kit j8.
contains two capacitors to be mounted between terminals ID13H-ID13.
And ID14H-ID14.
This change allows you to bypass capacitors inside the inputs.
hello

Grizzly
23-01-2015, 06:07 PM
Hi GrizzlyWhen you experience high pressure alarms from digital input is not caused by high pressure then the input is acquired properly.
is the case here in the controller Carel PCO2 has input defective.
to overcome the problem queso Carel provides a service kit j8.
contains two capacitors to be mounted between terminals ID13H-ID13.
And ID14H-ID14.
This change allows you to bypass capacitors inside the inputs.
hello


Hi Mark.
Thanks for your Help and advise.
It looks like you know what you are talking about and given that it would seem English is not your first language.
I thank you and have given you a rep point!
Would this service kit have a part number that you know?
Once again Thanks.
Grizzly

GREEK_REF
23-01-2015, 06:47 PM
hi to all
is it a pco2 or pco3???
pco uses carel software or bluebox custom software?? and which version???
u can see this info when pco is booting.
in my opinion it is a software issue because the fault is not permanent and u can reset it. if the id13 or id13h (high voltage) was destroyd u couldn t reset the fault whatever u did.
flash your pco controller with the latest software and firmware!!!

mark957
03-02-2015, 04:08 PM
HI Grizzly
Service kit j8
452114.85.05

Grizzly
03-02-2015, 09:02 PM
HI Grizzly
Service kit j8
452114.85.05
Thanks Mark.
Appreciated.
Grizzly