Whats going on

[chillerman2006]

HI Every-one

i have had a nice easter break - and i hope you all have too.

back to the work today and i recieve some very concerning news - NEW LEGISTLATIONS

1:tax law on vans to change to 33% of the cost of the vehicle + co2 emmissions - the same tax as is now on cars.

2:we are not to carry refrigerant or gas bottles in cars anymore.

my office can not confirm what is going on - tax law on vans - no problem i shall just get a car when its due to be replaced but if you are not gonna be allowed to carry bottles in a car no more - then ??????? what do we do

if these are coming in - when are they? and how can we avoid this rediculous tax rise? and what is every one in cars going to do? - i am told its not just gas bottles that are not going to be allowed to be carried but a lot of items including tool boxes.

between the tax man and the goverment they will ruin this great trade we all work in.

with such a massive wealth of knowledge on this site - could some one please tell me what is going on

how can they do this to us ?

surely with so many engineers in the country we can do something to control this or get around it some how

all the best chillerman 2006

[Abe]

Chillerman

Could you point to where this legislation is posted please?
regards
Abe

[chillerman2006]

hi abe

i have not seen the paper yet but one of our guys has just been on a refresher cousre for his gas handling and he has requested a van and wants to return his car - as he has been given this info in writing from the course which says something along the lines that we are no longer aloud to carry refrigerant/gases and tool boxes unless you are driving a hard sided vehicle and then it goes on to say that a car is not regarded as a hard sided vehicle

personally i would have thought a car is safer than most vans during an impact as cars go through strict crash testing where as vans do not

i have asked for the legislation number and will post it as soon as i recieve it

also i have contacted climate centre and hrp to see what they can tell me but still waiting for a response

will post any details as soon as i get them - but was hoping with the vast amount of knowledge on this site someone would know whats going on

regards chillerman2006

[chillerman2006]

hi abe

have finally got to the bottom of it

its my tight a** company trying to save money and get us all into vans

it is not legislation its a citb memo = CITB MEM 2.12
and all it says is there suggestions and they are trying to say we can not secure bottles safley in the back of an estate car - total rubbish - i said if they are that worried install a solid steel tool vault - but that would cost money and increase fuel consumption so i think i will not here any more on the subject

regards chillerman 2006

[Brian_UK]

Hey Chillerman, hear what you are saying about cars being crash tested over vans but think on this..

You put a nice solid steel toolbox in the back of your car/estate car and then have a rear end shunt.

The car is designed to crumble at the back to preserve the passenger space however, you have stuck a dirty great big steel box full of tools in the way.

So what happens is the toolbox is forced through the rear seat of the car and in the process through the back of anybody sitting there. That person is then taken to hospital to have their spleen removed or something similar.

So please, think very carefully about which vehicle you use and what you put in the back.

No I don't have shares in any vehicle suppliers;)

[WebRam]

I would have thought that there was a case for engineers to be moved into a classier type of van/pick-up. You know, the quad cab trucks that are out there now. This would give the engineer the best of both worlds.

[frank]

or the VW Caddy :)

No - No, not advertising my new van at all :)

[Alex Harvey]

The goverment is going for stealth tax's and any benifits in kind. After hitting cars, vans are next and starts April 2007. Basicially if you have use of your van for priviate use, other than home to and from work (you will need to prove good reason why you need to take the van home and prove only home to work mileage) you will be taxed like a car.

[Andy W]

This was discussed as early as 1995 at a firm I worked for at the time. You will always be taxed on your mileage from home to the depot, from the depot back home, it iscalled private use which is a taxable benefit, even if you nip in the shop on your way home for a paper it is still classed as private use, if you have a large van, take it home but it is to big to use for private use and use your own car, it is still deemed that you have a vehicle for private use at your disposal, this is where the £500 tax comes from. Even been self employed and working from home you still get taxed on the vehicle that you own. If you leave the van at work at nights or only take it home on standby and the company makes it clear that no private use is allowed, that is apparently how you get around it, but if you have an accident out of working hours........ you can't win.

[Alex Harvey]

At the present time a van with use including fuel is taxed at £500pa but if only use for travel to and from work (and needs to be documented) this is reduced to I think £250pa (the cost of your bus fare)

[slingblade]

hi abe

i have not seen the paper yet but one of our guys has just been on a refresher cousre for his gas handling and he has requested a van and wants to return his car - as he has been given this info in writing from the course which says something along the lines that we are no longer aloud to carry refrigerant/gases and tool boxes unless you are driving a hard sided vehicle and then it goes on to say that a car is not regarded as a hard sided vehicle

personally i would have thought a car is safer than most vans during an impact as cars go through strict crash testing where as vans do not

i have asked for the legislation number and will post it as soon as i recieve it

also i have contacted climate centre and hrp to see what they can tell me but still waiting for a response

will post any details as soon as i get them - but was hoping with the vast amount of knowledge on this site someone would know whats going on

regards chillerman2006

That's quite odd because ive recently done a city and guilds 2078 handling course and nowhere at all does it state anythig at all about not carrying refrigerant in cars.

it does however state that green diamonds are to be displayed on both sides and to the rear {red for hydrocarbons}. there are complicated guidelines for number of cylinders refrigerant type and weight to be transported in vans which iv'e forgotten allready.

[Makeit go Right]

Hey Chillerman, hear what you are saying about cars being crash tested over vans but think on this..

You put a nice solid steel toolbox in the back of your car/estate car and then have a rear end shunt.

The car is designed to crumble at the back to preserve the passenger space however, you have stuck a dirty great big steel box full of tools in the way.

So what happens is the toolbox is forced through the rear seat of the car and in the process through the back of anybody sitting there. That person is then taken to hospital to have their spleen removed or something similar.

So please, think very carefully about which vehicle you use and what you put in the back.

No I don't have shares in any vehicle suppliers;)

What you say is fair enough, but most all fridge engineers drive with just themselves in the car, or with a mate. The back seats are most always unoccupied. So, in practical terms, I'd say that with up to 2 in a car, the car is arguably safer (providing the fridge bottle(s) and tool kit, etc are strapped in place).

[chillerman2006]

Hey Chillerman, hear what you are saying about cars being crash tested over vans but think on this..

You put a nice solid steel toolbox in the back of your car/estate car and then have a rear end shunt.

The car is designed to crumble at the back to preserve the passenger space however, you have stuck a dirty great big steel box full of tools in the way.

So what happens is the toolbox is forced through the rear seat of the car and in the process through the back of anybody sitting there. That person is then taken to hospital to have their spleen removed or something similar.

So please, think very carefully about which vehicle you use and what you put in the back.

No I don't have shares in any vehicle suppliers;)

Hi Brian

well thats definatly given me something to think on, i have a six year old who would be sitting in the back in the line of fire of my tools, bottles etc. All my stuff will be removed from the car before she gets in there again, many thanks chillerman

[chillerman2006]

I would have thought that there was a case for engineers to be moved into a classier type of van/pick-up. You know, the quad cab trucks that are out there now. This would give the engineer the best of both worlds.

Hi Webram

i think thats a great idea, all engineers in some nice big comfortable mitsubishi L200 warriors or simalar

gets my thumbs up

[chillerman2006]

That's quite odd because ive recently done a city and guilds 2078 handling course and nowhere at all does it state anythig at all about not carrying refrigerant in cars.

it does however state that green diamonds are to be displayed on both sides and to the rear {red for hydrocarbons}. there are complicated guidelines for number of cylinders refrigerant type and weight to be transported in vans which iv'e forgotten allready.

hi slingblade

this was a citb course, the construction industry are not a governing body as far as i am aware but do like to add their own ideas to these courses as i have now found out.

what happens when joe bloggs goes to the petrol garage and collects a cylinder of gas for his fire or barbq -
they would not be available for sale if we could not carry them.

after looking into it with suppliers, i have found the law requires us to display green stickers if we carry nitrogen as this is compressed gas and dumpy bottles of refrigerant are condensed gas which require no labelling of vehicle and even maxi pack oxy and acetlyne do not require labels on vehicle , you only need them once you carry a porta pack or larger.

cheers chillerman