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Grizzly
17-10-2014, 10:35 PM
I may of got my facts slightly wrong, but I have been told that come January the UK Wholesalers.
Or at least the main one we use, are about to start policing the sale of refrigerants.
Meaning that unless you are known to them as working for a refcom or similar Company.

They will not sell refrigerant to you!
Apparently the wholesalers are to be made accountable for what refrigerants they sell and to whom!
There is even talk of software to track cylinders being issued to end users. Not sure about costs
But its a brilliant move all the same.
Has anyone heard similar?
Grizzly

MikeHolm
18-10-2014, 12:10 AM
Fat chance that would happen here....haha

Although, we cannot buy it without the "ozone depletion card". Bit of a joke, that.

Magoo
18-10-2014, 03:07 AM
Hi Grizzly.
sounds familiar to here as of Feb next year, each individual service bloke has to produce a refrigerant handlers/ fillers licence to purchase refrigerant, individuals not just the service company. A full days training course and a bag full of money to get license. My ammonia license does not cut it with authority WTF.

RANGER1
18-10-2014, 03:30 AM
Hi Grizzly.
sounds familiar to here as of Feb next year, each individual service bloke has to produce a refrigerant handlers/ fillers licence to purchase refrigerant, individuals not just the service company. A full days training course and a bag full of money to get license. My ammonia license does not cut it with authority WTF.

Ammonia licence, what's that?

Rob White
18-10-2014, 04:01 AM
.

Hi Griz

Yes it is a fact.

I have lots of documentation on it from the IOR and ACRIB but
basically what you say is correct. As of January all gas will have to
be logged against a certificate number and a name within the company.

All gas usage will be logged, but it goes further. The way the site visits
are calculated will change also. As of January the site visit will not be
based on 3, 30 or 300 Kg, it will be based on 5, 50 and 500 tons of CO2.

Basically you divide the GWP of your refrigerant into 5000 (5 tons of C02)
and that will give you your visit weight and interval.

R404 = (new value) 3922. C02 @ 5 tons = 5000.

5000 / 3922 = 1.27 Kg.

R404 will now need an inspection every year if it has more
than 1.27 Kg inside the system.

Because of that R404 will be gone in 15 years.
They are going to do the same to 404 as they did to R22, they are
going to control its production and aim to ban it.

http://www.acr-news.com/the-end-for-r404a-refrigerant

http://www.area-eur.be/system/files/Documents/AREA%20PressRelease%20F-gas%20Obligations%20%28140929%29.pdf

http://www.area-eur.be/system/files/Documents/AREA%20guidelines%20Fgas%20-%20Master%201%20%28FINAL%29.pdf

Regards

Rob

.

I have

Grizzly
18-10-2014, 05:39 AM
Thanks for the informative update Rob.
A nice and simple explanation.
Magoo and Ranger, thanks for the input Guys!
I used to feel sorry for the way you were both regulated in your countries.
It would appear we are to follow.
Grizzly

Brian_UK
18-10-2014, 11:14 PM
Thanks Rob for keeping us up to date.

chilliwilly
19-10-2014, 12:05 AM
Interesting, how will this affect drivers, labourers, and trainees calling to the wholesalers and picking up materials, and then an engineer having to make another journey to pick up the gas?

Also, why haven't Refcom updated and bulletined their members about this? How else are we to know about these changes?

Rob White
19-10-2014, 10:42 AM
Interesting, how will this affect drivers, labourers, and trainees calling to the wholesalers and picking up materials, and then an engineer having to make another journey to pick up the gas?

Also, why haven't Refcom updated and bulletined their members about this? How else are we to know about these changes?

.

From what I know, it should still be OK.

Drivers or labourers should still be able to collect and deliver
because the refrigerant will be booked to a certificate holder
within the company.

That is how I understand it.

Rob

.

jonjon
19-10-2014, 05:47 PM
Yet I bet you'll still be able to buy it off fleabay

johnit85
20-10-2014, 01:20 PM
I think you're true,

piewie
21-10-2014, 03:24 PM
Ahh but that's a joke Grizzly! You can still buy R22 in Australia and as for the licencing body ARCTICK just a private company raking in the bucks. Hopefully Mr Abbott will get rid of them like he has the Carbon Tax!!

And like Ranger says what Ammonia Licence?

Grizzly
21-10-2014, 03:44 PM
Ahh but that's a joke Grizzly! You can still buy R22 in Australia and as for the licencing body ARCTICK just a private company raking in the bucks. Hopefully Mr Abbott will get rid of them like he has the Carbon Tax!!

And like Ranger says what Ammonia Licence?
Oz is Oz piewie.
The guys in New Zealand are struggling as well!
Here in the UK the screw is tightening, as I say come January it is going to get interesting!

Grizzly

chilliwilly
23-10-2014, 12:45 AM
Come January there might not be any left...?

MikeHolm
23-10-2014, 12:26 PM
Ahh but that's a joke Grizzly! You can still buy R22 in Australia and as for the licencing body ARCTICK just a private company raking in the bucks. Hopefully Mr Abbott will get rid of them like he has the Carbon Tax!!

And like Ranger says what Ammonia Licence?

Piewie, the point of a "conservative" (political type) is that everything must be private run so their buddies can rake in the money and they can claim to be hands off.........DUH, Abbot will never get rid of a private company that rakes in the dough. Getting rid of the carbon tax was a mistake. I've got a really nice piece of high quality rope that i will sell you for your noose, cheap too, haha. It's a good deal, trust me.

Chillin4alivin
23-10-2014, 02:12 PM
I do know that if you want to buy care refrigerants from BOC you must go on the 1 day course.
700 later including return flights to England i've now got a BOC Card saying i can purchase care refrigerants from them. My Poor customers having to pay for that!!!!!

Grizzly
23-10-2014, 04:28 PM
I do know that if you want to buy care refrigerants from BOC you must go on the 1 day course.
700 later including return flights to England i've now got a BOC Card saying i can purchase care refrigerants from them. My Poor customers having to pay for that!!!!!

The sad thing is I can remember when they were free was it BOC or Calor who promoted these Gases first?
Grizzly

hookster
31-10-2014, 03:36 AM
Interesting thing is the sizes now of pre-charged equipment! all seeming to fall under the statutory leak check requirements, wonder why? :rolleyes:

Look at heat pumps, compliance sits with the importer / manufacturer size is below CO2 equivalent leak checks, installer does not need certification to purchase or install but amazing how our refrigeration training establishments see the new sales route of f-gas qualifying all the plumbers!

Not long before the plumbers realize that 2 day 350 opens up the lucrative split bashing market!

chilliwilly
01-11-2014, 12:46 PM
Just remind me what a care refrigerant is please, this must be something thats passed me by?

monkey spanners
01-11-2014, 03:33 PM
Just remind me what a care refrigerant is please, this must be something thats passed me by?


Propane, isobutane etc

chilliwilly
01-11-2014, 04:06 PM
Cheers MS, I suppose it gets the name care due to its properties producing a low carbon footprint, but shadowing the fact it having a greater risk of a loss occurring if its in a system designed and built by an accountant and not an engineer?

Digressing slightly.

As I previously mentioned in another thread, I have lpg on my gas safe card to be used as a fuel, but no assessment for using as a refrigerant. So I should imagine it can't be used in a room lower than ground level and has to have low level ventilation away from trapped drains and the like?

Tony
04-11-2014, 08:47 AM
Care comes from the days when they were sold by Calor - it was their trade name. i.e. CARE30, CARE40 etc.

Scoffcruddle
04-11-2014, 01:43 PM
What do they think your going to do,pay for the gas then let it go?

The worlds gone mad.

cadwaladr
05-11-2014, 02:47 AM
What do they think your going to do,pay for the gas then let it go?

The worlds gone mad.some idiots do,they put it into leaking systems without fixing the leak!