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dpr1974
02-06-2014, 09:19 PM
let me apologize as this is a bit long, also not sure if it's in the right section.
So, i'm a domestic service engineer of 18 years. but only recently decide to look into regassing fridges/freezer etc. all the units will be r600a. however i am having trouble finding precise answers, maybe i am not searching with the right phrases? also i should say that i have no idea about this, which is why i'm here to learn hence the stupid and maybe obvious questions.
firstly manifold gauges. why are the ones for r600a more expensive then others like r134? are they interchangeable? or are the dials different?
i was speaking to a collage and he said that he never weighs in the gas, he feeds it in via back pressure? anyone know how that works?
what is the order from start to finish of regassing?
any do's and don't? and tips
i prefer to braze the joints as i know how to do it and to me it feels and looks a better job but again, any tips when it comes to brazing on f/f?
do the dryers (or is it dries) need to be replaced with each regass?, can they be cleaned?
and finally, i read that you can convert a r134 unit to r600a, how does that work?
any advice will be greatly received and many thanks for reading.

David

The Viking
03-06-2014, 12:32 AM
WoW,
Young man, please put the spanner down and walk away from the fridge.

Sorry to put a cap on your enthusiasm but there are some things in life which are better to learn from other's mistakes...
And some lessons just can't be learnt from online forums or the web.

First I would like to point out that the more common name for R600a is Isobutane... If you are a smoker or out camping a lot you might think of some other common uses for butane?
As a result of this you will find that even old hands in the refrigeration industry hesitates before dealing with R600a. It is not very forgiving.

The above should answer your question as to why the gauges cost more...

The best thing you can do is to get yourself on some proper training where you can learn not only how to charge a system properly but also the correct, safe, way of dealing with R600a.

Stay safe out there.

:cool:

Grizzly
03-06-2014, 06:17 AM
Well said Viking!
DPR what exactly have you been working on for the last 18yrs?

I assume you have public liability for the works you carry out? Remember if things go wrong everyone is looking to blame someone.
I think you want to learn, great!
But be aware, without training you carry a huge liability!
And as far as I am aware don't meet any Industry minimum standards.
Grizzly



Grizzly

dpr1974
03-06-2014, 07:51 AM
Morning, thanks for the replies. i do know it's Isobutane, which i found to be confusing that this flammable gas can be installed with no training or certificate or nothing but the the older gases are!?
I live in the outback of Wales and there are no courses (that i've found) anywhere near by.
The last 18 years i have been repairing and selling all large white goods (except gas) and but apart from thermostat, thermistors and replacing relays i've stayed away from f/f. having to travel a round trip of 180 miles to buy in working f/f cuts into my profit and time, hence why i'm here.
You assume correctly that i have public liability though obviously it doesn't include re gassing yet.
i've seen many people start up in this business (all white goods) and fail due to no training and no idea what they are doing, followed up behind one chap who had to borrow tools from the customer!) which is why i'm here to learn from people who know. i have a few f/f with working compressor but no gas, to train on. so please don't think myself rude when i say this, but is there any one here who can help? who can give me a step by step guide through the process and prevent me from losing my eyebrows?

David

Josip
03-06-2014, 09:16 AM
Hi, dpr1974 :)

welcome to RE forums .... first post is usually here http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?72-New-to-RE to introduce yourself ...



Morning, thanks for the replies. i do know it's Isobutane, which i found to be confusing that this flammable gas can be installed with no training or certificate or nothing but the the older gases are!?
I live in the outback of Wales and there are no courses (that i've found) anywhere near by.
The last 18 years i have been repairing and selling all large white goods (except gas) and but apart from thermostat, thermistors and replacing relays i've stayed away from f/f. having to travel a round trip of 180 miles to buy in working f/f cuts into my profit and time, hence why i'm here.
You assume correctly that i have public liability though obviously it doesn't include re gassing yet.
i've seen many people start up in this business (all white goods) and fail due to no training and no idea what they are doing, followed up behind one chap who had to borrow tools from the customer!) which is why i'm here to learn from people who know. i have a few f/f with working compressor but no gas, to train on. so please don't think myself rude when i say this, but is there any one here who can help? who can give me a step by step guide through the process and prevent me from losing my eyebrows?

David

it will be good for you to search RE forums and read what you find interesting for you (I believe it will be a lot) ... on this forum you can find a lot of knowledge, experience ... maybe not enough to start your own business immediately, but for sure enough to build a good knowledge base ...

I'm industrial guy and do not have too much contacts with domestic units (except from the front side like an user ... beer in then out and so on ;) ) but I believe some of our valuable members are prone to help you with some advice, hints etc ... my warm suggestion to you is never underestimate or forget safety ... please, read my sig ...

Best regards, Josip :)

RANGER1
03-06-2014, 09:19 AM
http://www.transfairgmbh.homepage.t-online.de/Transfair%20Survey%20Refrigerator%20Evacuation.pdf

http://www.nt.ntnu.no/users/skoge/book-cep/diagrams/additional_diagrams/more_on_refrigerants/isobutane(R600A)-Danfos.pdf

There is a lot of stuff on internet, but as we all say get trained properly, get the right gear.

FreezerGeezer
03-06-2014, 10:13 AM
From memory when I did the Care course, you can't simply retrofit flammable gases.
All electrical gear associated has to be intrinsically safe - in other words, not able to provide a source of ignition to the gas should it escape.
That includes all the electrics in/on the fridge and your reclaim unit, vac pump etc.
so it's all a lot more expensive.

I haven't worked with flammable refrigerants (with the exception of R32 once) so maybe someone more knowledgable will correct me if I'm wrong?

Rob White
03-06-2014, 10:58 AM
Morning, thanks for the replies. i do know it's Isobutane, which i found to be confusing that this flammable gas can be installed with no training or certificate or nothing but the the older gases are!?
I live in the outback of Wales and there are no courses (that i've found) anywhere near by.
The last 18 years i have been repairing and selling all large white goods (except gas) and but apart from thermostat, thermistors and replacing relays i've stayed away from f/f. having to travel a round trip of 180 miles to buy in working f/f cuts into my profit and time, hence why i'm here.
You assume correctly that i have public liability though obviously it doesn't include re gassing yet.
i've seen many people start up in this business (all white goods) and fail due to no training and no idea what they are doing, followed up behind one chap who had to borrow tools from the customer!) which is why i'm here to learn from people who know. i have a few f/f with working compressor but no gas, to train on. so please don't think myself rude when i say this, but is there any one here who can help? who can give me a step by step guide through the process and prevent me from losing my eyebrows?

David

Qualifications are a legal requirement and by doing this work without them you
are breaking the law.


Do you run or own a shop that sells used household appliances by chance?

You need to do things in order and your first two posts indicate you are prepared to learn.

I would suggest a basic refrigeration course, that will teach you about refrigeration
in general and how they work. They will also teach you how to use gauges and why
they are different (different refrigerants work differently so the gauges need to show this).

Gauges can be interchanged but only if you know how they work and as to not weighing
in the refrigerant, that is something that can be done, again if you know what you are
doing, but is not recommended and actively discouraged.

You are actually breaking the law if you work on the refrigeration circuit of a fridge
if you do not have the correct legal qualifications and there are training courses
for working with Hydrocarbons (flammable refrigerants) and it would show you
how to braze components into the system safely.

Checkout:-

http://www.boconline.co.uk/en/services/safety-training/refrigerants-training/refrigerants-training.html

http://www.technical-training.co.uk/trainingcourses/Hydrocarbon_Safe_Handling.html

http://www.coolconcerns.co.uk/HC-Refrigerant.pdf

http://www.prtc.co.uk/courseN.asp?cs_id=45

There are four just to start with.

Do some reading on this site, search for Hydrocarbons (there are eight pages of discussions)

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/search.php?searchid=94339

Regards

Rob

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