Winery glycol Chiller for tiny winery

[hugewino]

Im looking at purchasing a glycol chiller for tiny winery. 8000L ferment at any one time utilising jacket fermentors and dimple plates.
Would a 5.67kW chiller be sufficient? I've found a chinese supplier that can make a 38L water tank glycol chiller that can chill to -10C. It has a built in pump to circulate the glycol

I've included a link to the actual chiller.
http://rozl.en.alibaba.com/product/1285065498-0/High_Effect_Hot_Sale_Wineries_Chiller.html

I could also get this chiller which i've been told would be sufficient, but it is 4 times the price!!!
http://www.kreyer.com/cgi-bin/cms?_SID=915566c43bb96fc52bcc5b5a36ab1e0e614ed5b400027309383026&_sprache=en&_persistant_variant=produkt&_bereich=artikel&_aktion=detail&idartikel=100266&_persistant_variant=produkt

Im a noobie so any help would be greatly apprciated!!!!

[r.bartlett]

cheap to buy = dear to own

[PaulZ]

Hi hugewino
If you buy cheap crap it will cost you later down the track. A lot of chillers coming out of China are cheap but replacement parts can be a problem and there will be no product support. If you buy something yourself you have to start it and set it up. The small pump that comes with the chiller may only be enough to pump from a tank to the chiller and back to the tank, you will have to put in another pump to circulate the glycol around the tanks. There is a lot more to it then first meets the eye.
I suggest you go to a reputable Refrigeration company who will design something to meet your needs, supply quality equipment, set the chiller up properly and support the product and you.
This will be more expensive but in the long run probably save you money and allow you to produce quality wine.
Regards
Paul

[hugewino]

damn. I thought that might be the case. How about this one?? I need to get glycol to -5 at a minimum.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111231760344&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:AU:1123

[PaulZ]

Hi HW
The Email chiller is on R22 which will be phased out soon, probably why it's up for sale, also you can't see it running, could have problems, another reason it could be for sale.
My advice refer to my first post.
Regards
Paul

[hugewino]

have any of you owned/worked a chinese chiller? my refridgeration mechanic thinks they're not bad

[hugewino]

and the italian ones seem so under done?

[Jova007200]

You're getting way too caught up in looks.

The important part is whether or not it functions as you desire. I can almost guarantee that the one you get from Alibaba will be a nightmare. I never liked the looks of some of those garages many of those China shops get their parts from.

Please tell me that you plan on using a heat exchanger

[Jova007200]

I'm sorry, I hope that didn't come across as if I were taking a stab at ya. :) That doesn't read so nicely....

[Magoo]

Get hold of dairy milk vat and chill glycol in that, pump around as required, Run at night for cheaper power rates. They come all insulated, covered and agitators fitted
Alternatively get local Fridge tech to build an ice bank tank arrangement, simple to operate and plenty of capacity.

[hugewino]

I've gone done the milk vat path. The cost a fortune to buy and install. I know a fridge mechnic that thinks they are no good. He says they're all 30-40 years old and cost a fortune to re-gas. They cost about the same as the the same as the Italian 4.5 kW glycol chiller.

[hugewino]

I'm sorry, I hope that didn't come across as if I were taking a stab at ya. :) That doesn't read so nicely....

What do you mean use a heat exchanger? I was going to use some jacketed tanks.

[Jova007200]

Never mind about the HEX then.. I missed that part some how.

[hugewino]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121224344587?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Would this unit be any good for what i need? It looks to be a 4500kW unit. It is from a manufacturing business for plastics. I essentially need to generate -5C glycol if possible.

Cheers,

Hugh

[Magoo]

Hi Hugh,
you have to decide whether you want demand cooling or thermal mass storage cooling. check out most wineries and they use mass storage. Constant temperature supply at process time, nothing worse than a chiller failure during process and loosing a whole batch that ends up as failure vintage. Capital plant investment is a better plan long term and add capacity as required as business grows.

[PaulZ]

Hi huge
I am pretty sure most guys on this forum will not tell you any of these chillers will meet your needs. As I have said in a previous post get some advice from a reputable company or at least get some advice form the frigie you know and get him to check out the equipment.
Any secondhand chiller will chill glycol / brine / water but some of the questions you need to ask are, will it meet your needs, will it be reliable, will you be able to get parts, what is the age of the chiller and the list goes on.
You seem to be set on buying a secondhand chiller probably because of financial constraints so buy what ever you can afford and accept the consequences if something goes wrong. The decision is yours guys on this forum can only advise you based on their experience.
Regards
Paul