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reefermadness
04-03-2006, 10:30 PM
Has anyone run into problems with the large shaft comp leaking at very cold ambients. We have a contsant problem with all the R-404a LS comp leaking when sitting for a week or more in the cold. Does anyone have tips? anything would be great. The units this happens on regularly go north of the arctic circle on barges. We dont' have any problems with small shaft stuff or anything running 12 401b 502 etc... everything else good.

Reefermadness:confused:

Reeferjon
06-03-2006, 02:14 PM
:eek: :rolleyes: :mad: :D ;) :p :eek:

To answer your Q.....err I'l leave that to someone else.
Nova? any comment?

John.




Has anyone run into problems with the large shaft comp leaking at very cold ambients. We have a contsant problem with all the R-404a LS comp leaking when sitting for a week or more in the cold. Does anyone have tips? anything would be great. The units this happens on regularly go north of the arctic circle on barges. We dont' have any problems with small shaft stuff or anything running 12 401b 502 etc... everything else good.

Reefermadness:confused:

Latte
06-03-2006, 08:59 PM
Hi Guys,

Good old R12/R502. Very few leaks - then the gas became illegal and we had to convert to R403b/R404A

Next thing we know TK bring out a refit kit as the vibrasorbers seep the new gas through.

I assume the cold weather in youre case is causing the seals to leak, could it be the oil on the seal doesn't do its job when its cold.

I am going back to the age old argument about do you or don't you put oil on a shaft seal when you fit it.
For the record i never used to and they would leak, then i met an engineer called martin huff who covered them in oil and they never leaked again.

In answer to your'e question reefermadness it looks like a product fault and probably something TK will have to come up with

Regards

Fatboy

fridgie37
08-03-2006, 07:46 AM
Are they New style stainless steel shaft seals.

Mark

reefermadness
11-03-2006, 07:59 PM
No they aren't. that might have something to do with it. AS far as oil, you MUST use oil everytime. Those things run in oil constantly which is fed off the the crank. I also know that the condition of the crank must be considered as well. Perhaps running thicker oil might help. The only problem is that it can get very hot here in the summer, or they haul to the US, where they might encounter desert conditions. The reefers here get the snot kicked out of them. Anywho, thanks guys for the info, i'll check into if its available in Canada.

Reefermadness

Latte
13-03-2006, 11:16 PM
Hi Guys,

Now, while we are on the subject of x430 shaft seals can someone explain something to me which i never understood.

The old style shaft seals (22-778) never leaked, as soon as you saw some oil on the bell housing you knew it had gone and replaced it.

Now the new style seals always leaked a small amount of oil and we were told by MTK that this is normal.
Surely if a seal leakes something as thick as oil the gas must be leaking also.

Now, how much play in the crank is allowed. If you rebuilt a compressor as soon as there was any play in it you would be replacing pots every 10,000 hours. I did however find that when you done a shaft seal you always had to rub the crank with steel wool as there was always a slight wear mark

Regards

Fatboy

reefermadness
14-03-2006, 03:03 AM
Hello again,

As far as the 22-778, i haven't had any problems with them, its only the large shaft 430's. I have the bullitin from TK that states the amount that it "should" or is allowed to leak. This makes no sense in a world where refrigeration systems have to be tight.

AS far as the end play in the crank, its a severe problem around here. What happens is the friction fit main bearings on the crank eventually turn in the housing and begin to "walk" front to back in the oil pump housing and in the block at the nose end of the crank. Once this crank walks, it will eventually take out the shaft seal or wear it out prematurely. Even though they are spring loaded, they dont' like being moved on the shaft once they have found their groove for 5-8ooo hours. What i do is take apart the comp, usually polish the rod journals, install new rod bearings and lock the crank in with 620 loctite. Tk early on said that only the block end of the crank should be loctited, but i do both with great results. The only thing to be aware of is that if the comp has to come apart again, generally the pump end main bearing will be pulled off the crank, due to the loctite. Mind you, if the comp is getting rebuilt, a new pump housing isn't that bad. I hope this helps. I tend to build up 426, X426, X430 once every 1-2 weeks.

With this shaft seal problem, i think that i might have to swing back to the O5g!

Reefermadness

nova
18-03-2006, 01:49 PM
Shaft seal leaks hasn't been any major problem in Finland. End play of course eventually will generate leaks, but that problem should be gone with new cast iron oil pump housing.

reefermadness
18-03-2006, 08:47 PM
CAST IRON OIL PUMP HOUSING! When did this come about???? Please explain, i am in the dark here.

Reefermadness

nova
19-03-2006, 06:56 AM
I quess it hasn't been adopted yet (someone correct if I'm wrong), but it was introduced in SMC 2005 (IIRC). When installing bearing, you need an oven because bearing fitting is so tight.

John, have you seen these yet?

I try to dig out an image of it.


Regards
Nova

Reeferjon
20-03-2006, 10:50 AM
We have formaly asked for a timeline, but as yet not much of a reply.....have not actualy seen a production cast pump yet either.

reefermadness
22-03-2006, 02:33 AM
Do you guys still see 426 comps with the old gear drive oil pump still?

Iankp
24-03-2006, 03:48 PM
Within the reefercontainer industry we have found that the X430 containers running on R134a were particularly subsceptible to shaft seal leakage. On these units we have had good success with retrofitting to R413A (R49) although as R49 has a high R134a content then not sure why this improvement was gained. Obviously not relevant to your query about R404A but may help in other circumstances. Also should add that there are stilla number of reefer containers still operating, especially on the second hand domestic storage market, with X426 compressors that were originally fitted with R12 and subsequently operated in shipping service with R409Awhich was a nightmare with shaft seal leakage. Again retrofitting to R49 has solved a lot of problems. TK have over the last few years produced a number of "magic cures" for these problems including a shaft seal with a dinky little packet of wipes to clean the shaft with before assembly but to be truthful I have not really found any of these to solve the problems.

star882
02-04-2006, 05:15 PM
Install a crankcase heater?
Replace the open drive compressor with a hermetic?

reefermadness
02-04-2006, 08:00 PM
Can't, not electric, diesel direct driven.