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reefer
02-03-2006, 03:18 PM
Any one have experience with R22 to R417a conversions. What is the best superheat value for 417A ?.
Any particualr problems encountered with 417a ?
reefer

Camille
02-03-2006, 03:28 PM
Anyone familiar with tables for sizing
surge drums for 134a refrigerant, or supplier.
typical use of the surge drum is for flooding
the evaporator and protect the compressor from liquid carry over.
Ammonia and R22 are the most common refrigerant we typically design for in our industrial refrigeration company; but the consultant is insisting on 134a refrigerant.
I have my own spreadsheet to size the vessel, simply I would like to verify my calc. with with someone who had a similar experience

chillin out
02-03-2006, 07:18 PM
Did you just close your eyes and stick a pin on the screen to determin where to post this question????

Chillin:) :)

US Iceman
02-03-2006, 08:10 PM
Hi Camille,

If you can provide the operating conditions and capacity requirements, I will review the surge drum sizing using my methods for comparison.

Best Regards,
US Iceman

slingblade
02-03-2006, 09:42 PM
Did you just close your eyes and stick a pin on the screen to determin where to post this question????

Chillin:) :)


lol. its getting about a bit isnt it.

arkay
03-03-2006, 07:13 AM
Hi Camille,

If it's for a new system, especially industrial - which you will use for several years - I would recommend you think again about going with R 134a. Its high warming index has already reduced its use in small systems, and its future may not be very bright.
Seek advice also from your country's environment ministry/dept to make sure you can go according to your consultant's recommendation.

old time fridgy
03-03-2006, 12:54 PM
hi reefer, have done quite a few R417a conversions on split a/c systems and had very little problems. i used isceon 59 which is now allocated as R417a and if you contact isceon they have loads of info. usually set superheat at as near to 7oC as possible but with preset capillaries can be a bit hit and miss and when changing from R22 to R417a we worked on manufacturers refrigerant charging info plus 10% and was never far off.
john.

Camille
03-03-2006, 02:31 PM
Anyone familiar with tables for sizing
surge drums for 134a refrigerant, or supplier.
typical use of the surge drum is for flooding
the evaporator and protect the compressor from liquid carry over.
Ammonia and R22 are the most common refrigerant we typically design for in our industrial refrigeration company; but the consultant is insisting on 134a refrigerant.
I have my own spreadsheet to size the vessel, simply I would like to verify my calc. with with someone who had a similar experience

abbasi
13-03-2006, 11:59 AM
In many systems of R-22 R-417A is being replaced directly by change of oil and it exhibits almost same properties as those of R-22 and it is termed as direct replacement of R-22 but there is a temperature glide problem which is not so much to trouble any1 you may search R-417A by name of ISCEON-59(it is member of isceon series) in google and personally i am amazed as it is not used instead of R-407C

Old working dog
13-10-2010, 07:36 AM
I have used 417a now for over 3 years now in Las Vegas And have had little or no issues.
Have been using after replacing compressors with routine clean outs. Even seems to work in the desert heat.. :cool:

Camille
15-10-2010, 01:33 PM
R417A is a zeotropic three-component blend [composed of 46.6% R-125, 50% R-134a, 3.4% R-600 or butane] ,is an effective refrigerant for process cooling. and cold storage from +10F to -30F, its effectiveness at higher temperatures ,giving the added benefit of lower discharge temperatures
Comparison to R22:
The best substitute for R22 with Zero ODP, R417A is unique non-ozone depleting long-term replacement for R22.
R417A can replace R22 without unit modification, no change of oil , can be used in compressors designed for R22, can be used with Mineral ,AB or POE oils, is non-flammable and rated Al by ASHRAE, is comparable to R22 in terms of performance.


Properties R22 R417A
ODP 0.05 0 0 0
Boiling Point (F') -41.4 -43.3
Temperature Glide (R) 0 10.0
Critical Temperature 205 194
Condensing Temperature
at 375 psi (absolute) 145 154
Refrigeration Capacity (%) 100 97
C.O.P.(%) 100 112
Discharge Gas Temp. (R) - -16.2
Lubricants MO,AB,POE


Regards

Camille Zabbal