Hanbell rc-19 screw on york yaes0715sa 50y chiller

[stufus]

Gentlemen I have an issue on three out of four circuits across two of the above chillers.
The issue being with loading and unloading, or more like the lack of it.Should be four stage's.
From observing the circuit that is doing what it should ,I have noted that at 25% load I should be pulling in the region of 70A and pulling 140/150A fully loaded.

The other three circuits are starting up and and going straight to 145A , this is resulting in the water temperature falling to quickly and the unit shutting down on temperature.
Granted the design of the water loop is not ideal , but thats for another day.

Incidently the front end on the controller is telling me that the circuits are operating at 25% load which obviously they are not.
I have tried manually loading and unloading the slide using magnets but to no avail, nothing changes.
I have changed the oil, oil filter, oil cooler solenoid valve,and checked the oil feed cappilliary for blockages.
I have even swapped the solenoid stems around on the stages , But nothing changes.
Incidently York in their wisdom have decided that there was no need for suction or discharge valves on these compressors , which means it's a reclaim on the compressor and evaporator every time, which is time consuming.

I had posted a video previosly regarding issues with one of these compressors which by the way still exists.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHM5re2xmjk&context=C4225b48ADvjVQa1PpcFNrjnvbdXJXT6EumXLMBjBxmqKQ44IBYwQ=

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHM5re2xmjk&context=C4225b48ADvjVQa1PpcFNrjnvbdXJXT6EumXLMBjBxmqKQ44IBYwQ=)Although it now transpires that that circuit is in fact stopping fully loaded, so are the other two but that one is the only one with the "clang"
Numerous leaks have been found and repaired on all circuit's , SO could the root cause be oil degredation due to excessive discharge temperature's causing clogging in the oil paths for for the slide????

Any advice welcome at this stage , as I'm at a loss on this one.:confused:

Cheers
STU

[Grizzly]

Hi Stu.
I cannot say for certain as to what's your issue.
But I have had some success previously on other Screws,if only to prove the slide operation.

By isolating the machine (Hopefully there are sufficient valves available and that they work.)
Attaching a modified fitting with a hand oil transfer pump.
Then using the pump to move the slide. I know of some that are driven with the use of Nitrogen.

Either way make sure that you have a bleed valve set-up.
So that you can carry out a controlled unload of the slide.
As some have a huge spring behind them which will if allowed slam the slide back to 0%.

A bit of a faff I know but you can prove or disprove the slide operation and check calibration at the same time.

You could even blow through your oil ports first, catching the oil so that it can be assessed as well.
No quick route now I am afraid!
Grizzly

[stufus]

Thanks for the reply Grizzy
I reclaimed the charge from one earlier and drained the oil, which was in good condition.
But due to having been away from home for the best part of a month and due to go on holidays on Thursday the missus insisted I come home and go shopping for new speeds.
Going back on Monday to strip all the oil ports and blast them with nitro, will try the oil pump if I have time.If not I'll pass responsibility to Al, because I'm good like that and I'll be off tanning my cheeks.

Cheers
STU

[install monkey]

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?868ifo86etdm63i
monkey thinks slide valve jammed- unless the controller is req 25% load but relays giving 100% output- or some other monkeys mauled with the wiring

[RusBuka]

or just he is broken.

[RANGER1]

Added to post see below

[install monkey]

http://www.hanbell.com/service_tecmanual_eng.asp
tech manuals for hanbell:D

[RANGER1]

Stufus, I assume you have a manual on the Hanbell but if not you can download it off the net. They have overhaul manual & technical manual on Hanbell website, technical manual has what you need in it. They have a spring to unload which they say unload solenoid should be energized 60-90 secs before stop & 1-3 mins before compressors starts. When compressor stopped only one solenoid will be energized returning oil to suction area of compressor. Grizzly is right you have to simulate things to get it straight in your mind of what should be happening, then the controls would be checked against that. Do you have idea of which solenoid are doing what + when, as they could be mixed up.

[install monkey]

quick fix- run it up and get the persueder out- usually a 90z ball hammer will sort it
:)

[al]

A compressor that sounds like big ben at shutdown! Is it those open front speedos your shopping for Stu?

i was thinking of taking next week off....

[stufus]

Thanks for the replies men
We have just about every piece of literature available for both the chiller and the compressors at this stage.
The controller is sending all the right signals at the right times but nothing is happening ,It just plows away at full load.All the solenoids are energized and de-energized as per the control signals(have to shut both chillers down for a while to generate a significant load in the loop) but the slide does not appear to be moving on two circuits ,and getting pinged back by the spring on shut down on the other.
When it starts at full load it won't stage up because it is pulling the loop temperature down to quickly.
Have checked the control wiring against the circuit that is fine and it all matches.
I'm amazed that three circuits out of four can all develop the same symptoms.
I will keep you all up to speed on my impending lack of progress.
After that I'll pass you all over to my willing apprentice al who is not taking next week off.
Cheers
Stu

[install monkey]

by next week the 4th will fail too:)

[stufus]

Most likely, turning into saga this one.
Nearly had one cook the other day when one of the 95kw delta contactors welded.
So off we went to inspect all the others ,all pithed to fook.
Easier to get contactors than contacts for some reason , 3k later.HAHA
Cheers
Stu

[Grizzly]

Most likely, turning into saga this one.
Nearly had one cook the other day when one of the 95kw delta contactors welded.
So off we went to inspect all the others ,all pithed to fook.
Easier to get contactors than contacts for some reason , 3k later.HAHA
Cheers
Stu

Hi Stu.
what are you doing messing about on the forum, more importantly how have you gotten away with it.
When Holiday is impending.
I can tell Al is not impressed.
Are these ABB contactors?
Because we had a site where every maintenance visit we used to check the contacts and change whenever we deemed them to be to pitted.

Until we got the Company Guru involved!
Who explained that with the contacts they naturally pit and basically as we would call it "Bed In"!

Since that advice we have not changed contacts or contactors unless the situation deemed it.

In other words if it ain't broke don't fix it!
When we used to order up spare contacts it took weeks.
Grizzly

[stufus]

HAHA Nice one Grizzly
I'm the Boss in this house (when herself is out);)
Couldn't give a toss what Al thinks:p He knows what side his bread is buttered.
They are ABB units alright but they are fairly bad,Have taken a pounding due to the excessive starts ,In the region of 85k starts for 7k of run time.
And since I've been given free reign to spend a few buck's I thought ,why not? Better to do it now to avoid it coming down the line only to find they won't spend the money then.
Strike while the iron is hot kinda thing !
I'm a professional Grizzly ,I don't be letting my mind wander while on the job , like thinking about topless ladies,maybe even naked ladies if I'm lucky ,sunshine, copious amounts of alcohol and no. work.
Never even crossed my mind. mmmmm whoops my bad.
Cheers
Stu

[goshen]

Hi
i agree with grizzly on this one , we have had problems with hannbell , in our case the loading and unloading , solonoides membranes, faild and the comp loaded permanently untill replaced .
very sensitive oil pathes, and cra....... valves.
good luck

[stufus]

1052910530105311053210533Some of the findings during the autopsy. Slide valve piston rod sheared.Slide itself twisted in housing and is locked in there in the 100% load position.

[stufus]

105341053510536Here's a few more this shows the piston out of the compressor on the left in the picture ,which was also having load/unload issues ,as you can see the piston guide ring is torn. So out of four circuits 3 need slide piston overhaul kits and one compressor needs a complete re-man.
And for the record splitting one of these compressors while still in the chiller frame is no fun.
Cheers
Stu

[HVACRsaurus]

What an ordeal. Thanks for posting.

[al]

Is that my hand in pic1, recognition at last!!

alec

[goshen]

Hi stufus
how many working hours on these comps? the wear seems pretty bad!!
good luck

[stufus]

It is your hand AL , the orange hair on you arm gives you away.
@HVACRsaurus Not something that was undertaken lightly ,had exhausted all other avenues before cracking them open.
@ Goshen As I said in one of the earlier posts somewhere ,These issues had been around long before I set foot on site, The run hours are low considering the units are 6/7 years old...But at between 6500/8000 hrs they have 80'000 starts .There in lies the problem.
Suspect there is a major design flaw in relation to building load calculation and water loop design, but that's a pen pushers problem , someone else can do the calculations on that. It's well above my pay grade I'm a mere spanner jockey ;-)

Cheers lads

Stu

[install monkey]

could just be the prop band and recycle timer settings are too close on the chiller

[stufus]

Fook me got a quote in for the gear required to sort 3 of these out,
Guide ring-80 euro
Teflon ring- 75 euro
O ring - 28 euro
Gasket set- 650 euro

That is not a typo , 650 euro for 2 fooking gaskets
I think I'll be getting them made local or all going well reusing the old ones.

Cheers
Stu