Refrigerants knowledge

[question mark]

hi Guys
I am trying to understand, what is the difference between one refrigerant to the other one, say r22 to r404 to r134 ,and 400 series or in general all of the refrigerants . for basic fridge , freezer air con , cool room . why one is preferred over another depending upon different application. when the basic requirement is to remove heat(energy) from one side to the other. why their is not just a single refrigerant which can work on every thing. may be i m wrong on this one that some refrigerant work on low pressure or on high then compressor is rated accordingly. please i would like to know all the considerable factors in this topic. cost element. fast , slow , big or small compressor. metering valves. I have only been 1.5 years into the trade.
Thanks

[GPD]

hi, we ma spend a year in understanding how refrigerant choice is dependant on so many factors which are very often not merely technical but more commercial and lobbying-orientated. I would suggest you to take a look to the great Bitzer refrigerant report: http://www.bitzer.de/eng/products/docu/doc_det/1; this very well explains trends and scope for using this or the other refrigerant.

[Rob White]

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When it comes to refrigerants there is no one quick answer.

Some refrigerants are toxic or flammable some aren't so there's one reason.

It is about moving energy but other factors need to be considered.

Some refrigerants work well at low pressure some at high
so AC, freezers even heatpumps require different refrigerants.

Some refrigerants mix with mineral oil some with synthetic
and some refrigerants don't mix with any oil.

Some refrigerants are blended together some aren't and
when you blend the refrigerants some glide and some don't.

Some damage the environment bad, some only hurt it a little.

Refrigerant production is a multi billion £ / $ industry and
if you believe the producers, their refrigerant is the best one available.

So not a straight forward question and certainly not a straight forward answer.

Rob

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[GPD]

If I am not wrong Australia has now enruled a very large taxation on refrigerant GWP, right?

[question mark]

you are right GPD it went 400% to 500% increase but our favorite r22 probably the most dangerous for environment went only couple of fold. so don't why r22 price was't increased.

[question mark]

thanks ROB I think i should start reading books probably for refrigeration science

[moideen]

There is no single refrigerant that can be used for all types of applications. Therefore there is no such thing as an ideal refrigerant. If one refrigerant has certain advantages; it will have some disadvantages as well. So a refrigerant that has greater advantages than disadvantages is chosen, Apart from its ability to evaporate and remove heat at the desired temperature in the evaporator. The selection of a refrigerant for an application is bases on other characteristic, Such as its pressure temperaturecharacteristicatsaturation, density, viscosity, flammability, toxity…

[Rob White]

you are right GPD it went 400% to 500% increase but our favorite r22 probably the most dangerous for environment went only couple of fold. so don't why r22 price was't increased.

R22 is reasonably low as a GWP (Global Warming Potential) so if they are taxing
high GWP refrigerants then R22 will not suffer too much.

R22's problem is it is an Ozone depleter so it has been banned throughout Europe
and other countries have restricted its use.

Another two reasons why refrigerant use is complicated.

Regards

Rob

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[urstrinath]

i Think the instructions helps to you check on this once before buying refrigerator ..http://pricecheckindia.com/blog/refrigerator-buying-guide-in-india/

[FreezerGeezer]

R22 is reasonably low as a GWP (Global Warming Potential) so if they are taxing
high GWP refrigerants then R22 will not suffer too much.

R22's problem is it is an Ozone depleter so it has been banned throughout Europe
and other countries have restricted its use.

Another two reasons why refrigerant use is complicated.

Regards

Rob

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Yes, as I understand it, Oz are sticking to the original Montreal Protocol. R22 is phased out in 2016, but we can carry on using reclaimed R22 for yonks. And if you have a store of new R22 on site, you can keep using that indefinitely.
There's still quite a lot of R11 around here thanks to that loop hole.

Slightly off topic, but I was told in the UK that R11 was banned because it's carcinogenic. But over here they insist it isn't carcinogenic at all. Who's right?

[Rob White]

Yes, as I understand it, Oz are sticking to the original Montreal Protocol. R22 is phased out in 2016, but we can carry on using reclaimed R22 for yonks. And if you have a store of new R22 on site, you can keep using that indefinitely.
There's still quite a lot of R11 around here thanks to that loop hole.

Slightly off topic, but I was told in the UK that R11 was banned because it's carcinogenic. But over here they insist it isn't carcinogenic at all. Who's right?


R11 was banned because it is an Ozone depleting substance.
They were not bothered if it was or was not a carcinogenic.

Engineers are easier to replace than the environment, apparently :rolleyes:

:D

Rob

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[Rob White]

Yes, as I understand it, Oz are sticking to the original Montreal Protocol. R22 is phased out in 2016, but we can carry on using reclaimed R22 for yonks. And if you have a store of new R22 on site, you can keep using that indefinitely.
There's still quite a lot of R11 around here thanks to that loop hole.

Slightly off topic, but I was told in the UK that R11 was banned because it's carcinogenic. But over here they insist it isn't carcinogenic at all. Who's right?


In the UK (EU) we seem to be quite a few years in front of you
when it comes to banning CFC and HCFC refrigerants.

R22 has only been allowed in the recycled state for years over here
and it will be banned completely at the end of next year (2014).

We are in Europe you see and Europe wanted to be seen to be more
proactive than any one else. So when the rest of the world was working
in decades for the total removal, the EU banned em overnight.

Rob

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