Lg Air con [Archive] - Refrigeration-Engineer.com forums

Chris2005

08-01-2006, 09:19 PM

Hi Everyone,

Is anyone out there having problems with lg..
A few months ago we fitted 2 7kw r410 cassete units.
After a month one of the units shown fault code ch45 so we got on to the supplier and got new probes for the outside unit which solved that problem.
Now both units are showing fault code ch33 high discharge temp..The units were on heat mode at the time.
We reset the units and there running o.k now until the next time..I cant find any reason for this happening the checked the filters and there clean.

We have also had to replace boards on the floor ceiling convertables under gaurantee ...

And the last time we ordered units we were told it might take a month to get them as lg had recalled all that model cos of problems with the boards..

I think its time to start using mitsi..
Chris..

chillin out

08-01-2006, 09:25 PM

Is anyone out there having problems with lg..
No, never, LG is the best air con unit out there.:D

Is the gas charge ok? not to much?
Air in system?
Fans running ok?

Chillin:) :)

Brian_UK

08-01-2006, 09:29 PM

I thought the first reply to Chris would have been - "Oh no! not another LG question?!?!"

Chris2005

08-01-2006, 09:36 PM

Hi chillen..

The system was well vact out and the extra gas was put in using the electronic scales,
And the fans are running fine,
The units have been running for a few months fine apart from the probe prob on one unit.

I just thought it strange how both independant units brought up the same fault code at the same time ..

Chris..

Abe

08-01-2006, 10:43 PM

Same batch

Remember, according to LG, they churn out one every few seconds.....

Which in my book says, No Quality Control Checks

rbartlett

03-03-2006, 02:17 PM

just to bring everyone up to speed LG have released a tech bulletin regarding the CH3 fault on the small splits

If you have one giving trouble contact your dealer for the upgrade

cheers

richard

Abe

04-03-2006, 06:14 PM

No, never, LG is the best air con unit out there.:D

Is the gas charge ok? not to much?
Air in system?
Fans running ok?

Chillin:) :)

Cooling Magic......

Chilling was being sarcastic............
He doesnt "really" love LG
:)

jteixiera

06-03-2006, 11:02 PM

mate check ure indoor unit fan operation and check ure filters discharge temp usually short of gas to much superheat check ure subcooling

Andy W

13-03-2006, 10:15 PM

I have been out to another LG today with the compresor down, I could compile a list of faults that myself and a coleague have come across that LG the bunch of ***** deny. I have got to fit 2 compressors, 2 fan speed controllers and 2 defrost boards to a total of 3 machines, wish I had never set eyes on LG.

puddleboy3

14-03-2006, 09:04 PM

Question are both units in the same room?, if so where they commissioned at the same time? High discharge temp 9/10 relate to shortage of refrigerant. Are you sure that the pipes are not crossed, very common!

Andy W

14-03-2006, 10:39 PM

Don't forget, LG are still having electronic problems that have not yet been solved that they will deny as they dont want a repeat of the withdrawl of the new range from sale as happened a few months back when all the machines were put in quarantine and loads of electronics were replaced. They won't tell you that but I had the information from an wholesaler who was told by LG themselves. Korean electronics = unreliable.

Ireland

04-04-2006, 11:44 PM

I've been using them as a "cheap" option for the last couple of years.

We always oversize the units as this seems to be the only way to stay out of trouble.

And it is best to go to the troube of installing the hard-wired remote controls (if supplied) as they do get rid of some of the nuisance problems (don't know why, it just did for us).

Plus the hard-wired ones help with trouble-shooting.

Andy W

05-04-2006, 08:32 AM

I've been using them as a "cheap" option for the last couple of years. 2 years is about right before the problems start. I presume that you are all aware that the fan speed controllers are not up to the job and the first thing to happen is the fans work intermittently, then the board blows usually in the same place, then the fans stop, the compressor overheats and starts to blow off on the internal pressure releif valve, this happens in between of maintenance visits so you dont catch it, it then cooks the compressor. Now try getting a compressor from LG, ok, you now have the compressor, try getting the fitting allowance, I can't. I am owed for fitting a complete set of plastics, modifications to a 10.6 cassette that LG could not sort out, fitting a compressor, 3 fan speed control boards, 2 defrost boards and a contactor.

A friend of mine specialised in just LG and had so many problems and had to fit so many parts it was unbelievable, LG = loads of garbage.

NoNickName

05-04-2006, 10:04 AM

I just had a return scroll from LG. The wires from the connection box disconnected from the inside of the compressor.
This is really a **** brand.

dougie

11-04-2006, 07:19 PM

lg must be one of the worst makes out there,very cheap and nasty.:confused:

Andy W

12-04-2006, 08:03 AM

Another problem as reared its head on one of my sites, CH03 fault code, communication error between cassette PCB and wall mounted hard wired remote controller, happened 3 times now, wiring plugs tight, no light tubes popped etc causing spikes, changed the remote controllers over as there are 2 systems on site, waiting for fault to reappear so I can make a decision on what is faulty.

Alex Harvey

27-04-2006, 11:15 PM

In Spain there is a saying 'cheap is dear'. One call back costs more than the price difference between these cheap brands and a Daikin. The lesson is clear. As an industry, we should steer clear of the cheap brands and tell our customers when quoting that going for the high quality brands will only make a small difference to the overall price (something about 10%). Most customers understand this. If price is all that matters to them, best leave them to someone else.

PJB

28-04-2006, 01:06 PM

Abe

28-04-2006, 03:15 PM

Andy W

28-04-2006, 06:29 PM

The only issue with LG is that there are som untrained monkeys installing it because of its price. Fact!
(obvioulsy no one that has the brains to visit a site like this)

Installed correctly, from my experience, its as reliable as anything.

True LG have some problems but ive yet to find a brand which doesnt. Its 100x better than 4 years ago.Are you by any chance employed directly or indirectly by LG or do you work for a distributor of LG. My 28 years experience in the refrigeration & air conditioning industry means that by now I think I have got the hang of this installing split type air conditioners, the first air con I ever installed was an old wooden cased Qualitair back in 1980. You better believe it, LG make rubbish equipment, the distributors are rubbish,( I have now dealt with 2 independant dealers and 3 distributors, the after sales and technical back up is non existant, the warranty procedure is a joke. Recently I have fitted a complete set of plastics, a compressor, 3 fan speed controllers, 2 deforst boards and 1 remote controller, I have not received a penny for my labour. I have also had a problem that LG could not solve and washed there hands of, it was left to me to come up with a solution at my own cost before my customer would pay me, now are you telling me that LG are any good as a product or a company?

rbartlett

28-04-2006, 07:50 PM

M*rc and I have been discussing this very issue and we have come to the conclusion that quite a high percentage of LG's problems is that they have reversed the progress of 'splits' whilst hanging on the 'me too' band wagon.

IE a Daikin is quite a simplistic installation which needs little or no brain power to install or even actual commission.

However LG have pretended to be in a similar vein and indeed tried to make us believe they simplified it even further by pushing it down further the path of 'white goods'

However (and this is the rub) their equipment was actually many many years behind the 'state of the art' and actually requires a higher technical level of refrigeration knowledge when the installation falls outside their tight restraints.

IE a 407c kw ducted has a liquid line not a 'pre expansion' line. Not many 'bashers' have ever seen a liquid line let alone actually installed or commissioned one.Believe me the average 'basher' is easily confused which is why they like Daikin etc so much

They don't usually provide a gms/m for additional charge and again this will mean the 'basher' will bodge/guess With the bottle inverted and "one Mississippi two Mississippi" charging as they have no real idea how to check superheat.

The seasoned installer is also able to fall into the trap of thinking like a 'basher' as having installed Daikin Tosh, Mitzi ET AL it was a case of 'there you go luv' once the power is on.

I myself have been caught by the LG/Daikin where the power wasn't supplied before a Daikin install and I have actually told the customer " don't worry just tell the sparks to turn it on -It'll work as they ALWAYS do"

However LG are a different matter and we have had loads of silly issues where the incorrect charge level caused intermittent and strange faults. I now know we have to allow an extra 3-4 hours commissioning to certain LG installs and then (and only then) will reliability meet expectations...

The quality is an issue as they targeted the 'basher' and his market so they do carry the blame for this.

However it is a fact that they came into the market with an almost wilful aim to mislead the market and the installers and bear rightly the result...

Cheers

Richard

rbartlett

28-04-2006, 08:01 PM

Are you by any chance employed directly or indirectly by LG or do you work for a distributor of LG. My 28 years experience in the refrigeration & air conditioning industry means that by now I think I have got the hang of this installing split type air conditioners, the first air con I ever installed was an old wooden cased Qualitair back in 1980. You better believe it, LG make rubbish equipment, the distributors are rubbish,( I have now dealt with 2 independant dealers and 3 distributors, the after sales and technical back up is non existant, the warranty procedure is a joke. Recently I have fitted a complete set of plastics, a compressor, 3 fan speed controllers, 2 deforst boards and 1 remote controller, I have not received a penny for my labour. I have also had a problem that LG could not solve and washed there hands of, it was left to me to come up with a solution at my own cost before my customer would pay me, now are you telling me that LG are any good as a product or a company?

Try Hawco and Gordon -he knows their product very well.

I spoke to LG technical in Slough about the fact that the non inverter in ceiling ducted turn off the fan in heat mode once satisfied and the guy there seemed to know his stuff (he agreed this was not a good idea but got knocked back previously when asking for a 'fix' by LG Korea) Although I was the first ever official complaint on this btw...

Cheers

Richard

slingblade

28-04-2006, 08:04 PM

M*rc

LOL.

IE a Daikin is quite a simplistic installation which needs little or no brain power to install or even actual commission.

Meowww. carefull, Frank may be listening.

It seems once again that Fujitsu is clearly far better than anything else. it's cheapish, and you can install and walk away leaving the end user to power up and chill out.

Karl Hofmann

28-04-2006, 08:39 PM

The only issue with LG is that there are som untrained monkeys installing it because of its price. Fact!
(obvioulsy no one that has the brains to visit a site like this)

True, there are some untrained monkey out there chucking them in, this is because LG are happy to sell their goods to untrained monkeys, making life difficult for us highly trained monkeys

Installed correctly, from my experience, its as reliable as anything.

Some of their stuff works very well, some of their stuff is crap but I am not going to ruin my reputation and my bank account finding out which is which

True LG have some problems but ive yet to find a brand which doesnt. Its 100x better than 4 years ago.

And in another four years it will be 100 times better than today. Why can't we cut the crap and have good stuff today? Even the public are wise to LG

frank

28-04-2006, 08:46 PM

It seems once again that Fujitsu is clearly far better than anything else. it's cheapish, and you can install and walk away leaving the end user to power up and chill out.

Oh - and don't forget to leave him the earplugs as excessive exposure to Fujitsu can leave the hearing damaged :)

rbartlett

28-04-2006, 08:50 PM

Oh - and don't forget to leave him the earplugs as excessive exposure to Fujitsu can leave the hearing damaged :)

please do not feed the trolls

cheers

richard

slingblade

30-04-2006, 11:24 AM

please do not feed the trolls

cheers

richard

Quiet, adults talking.

S_Line

09-05-2006, 02:57 PM

We have had nothing but trouble with LG and from the Service we recieved From LG.

Im not going to go into detail on a public forum, but even LGs own Engineer could not fix the fault with a LG Cassette.
When they said " weel replace it if it drips water again"
Guess what, they denied that they ever said that, the unit continued to leak and i had to foot the bill take the heap of junk out and install a Mitsi Heavy unit. Job done.

As for Fujitsu Cassettes ! Anyone have bits of plastic falling off them ?
The old Fujitsu cassettes were great :)
As soon as the new ones came out, bits were falling off quicker than they could be fitted back on :lol:

We have been Installing Mitsi Heavy for 3 years now and are enjoying NO call backs to any of the range.
Profits are up due to this and everything is Rosey :) :lol:

racs

09-05-2006, 06:21 PM

As no equipment is now made in this country surely some damage is done in shipping?
I have been involved in selling all of the makes mentioned previously with the exception of LG. As far as i can ascertain most problems occur either from a quality issue or which is most often the case prices being driven down to such a level that quality goes out of the window.

matt black

25-05-2006, 02:47 PM

Hi, the fault is with the outdoor board. This is a known fault. Contact Hawco for solution. I have had this on 26 units, all are now fine.

Matt Black

Andy W

06-06-2006, 03:44 PM

Had another fan speed control module fail this afternoon on a 14KW HP cassette, this appears to be the most common part to fail and LG are still issuing the same unmodified part even though they are aware of the failure rates.

Steve Metcalfe

06-06-2006, 06:31 PM

Hi I am new to the forum but not new to the problems with LG.
We have had to many problems to mention with LG.
The latest being a pipe cracking next to the reverser valve on the outdoor. We have decided to braise this due to the problem of getting a replacement from LG.
Lg's answer to every problem is poor installation!!!

We are a Daikin approved installer and all of my guys are highly qualified engineers and LG have the cheek to send there own (totally unbiased engineer) out as we had had so many problems. Despite having each unit inspected by other companies to verify our install LG still refuse to honour the warranty. We dont supply LG anymore needless to say but I have had to change 10k's worth of kit to keep my customers happy(obviously a concept that LG do not Understand) my advice only fit quality stuff like Fujitsu, Mitsi or preferably Daikin of which we have fitte £100k's worth since March and had no issues at all or any of the 200 units we fitted last year!!!!!

Brian_UK

06-06-2006, 06:50 PM

Hi Steve and a warm welcome to the forum.

Our man Frank will be in touch soon I expect :)

Andy W

06-06-2006, 08:13 PM

Hi I am new to the forum but not new to the problems with LG.
We have had to many problems to mention with LG.
The latest being a pipe cracking next to the reverser valve on the outdoor. We have decided to braise this due to the problem of getting a replacement from LG.
Lg's answer to every problem is poor installation!!!I can not tell you how angry and dissapointed I am with LG, my workmanship has never been criticised, I was even complimented on how good it was by the LG warranty inspector, I eventually got all my parts on warranty but have never received a penny in labour allowance, last month alone I installed 5 Fujitsu's and ordered another 2 for this month and I do not specialise in installations as the core of my business is service calls, of those systems I would normally of used LG, LG have got to be suffering sales wise by the amount of feedback I have received. When will LG listen to experienced professional engineers and stop blaming every one else for their poor quality, sub standard products.

frank

06-06-2006, 11:04 PM

Hi Steve and a warm welcome to the forum.

Our man Frank will be in touch soon I expect :)

Oh Brian, I'm Blushing :)

andy bailess

11-06-2006, 05:54 PM

LUCKY GOLDSTAR absolute **** 4 high wall units 2 years ago split condensers, fans packed up, no HP switches.First kit on R410 never again sorry to say Fujitsu rules.:)

S_Line

11-06-2006, 09:04 PM

We dont supply LG anymore needless to say but I have had to change 10k's worth of kit to keep my customers happy(obviously a concept that LG do not Understand) my advice only fit quality stuff like Fujitsu, Mitsi or preferably Daikin of which we have fitte £100k's worth since March and had no issues at all or any of the 200 units we fitted last year!!!!!

Dont blame you, We stopped installing LG units a few years back, We laugh at the poor Shop owners who are having LG units unstalled, its like installing a Time Bomb :(

We have been Installing Mitsi Heavy for over 3 years now and in over 500 Units we have only Had ONE problem !! Last week we needed to order a replacement outside Board :( We were Gutted, in 500 units we finally had one that didnt work :(

S_Line

11-06-2006, 09:06 PM

II installed 5 Fujitsu's and ordered another 2 for this month and I do not specialise in installations as the core of my business is service calls, of those systems I would normally of used LG, .

Try a Mitsi Heavy Cassette, far better than a Fujitsi ;) Trust me ;)

The MG Pony

13-06-2006, 02:28 AM

I pledge thy allegiance to Copland! Custom built Copland plants are the only way to go IMO. I see it like I see a computer the only way to do it right is do it custom.

hendrag

19-01-2007, 04:34 PM

frank

19-01-2007, 04:57 PM

A big welcome to the Forum hendrag.

Maybe you can enlighten us to the wierd and wonderful ways that LG operates :)

NoNickName

19-01-2007, 05:18 PM

I run the LG technical department, i agree with some but not all of the above, LG have made some duffers in the past but things are improving fast.

keep your ear to the ground ref the tech support you never know you might be pleasantly surprised....

Wow, that's nice to know. I'll got few photos for you on Tuesday, when I'm back from Zürich.

Argus

19-01-2007, 05:45 PM

I run the LG technical department, i agree with some but not all of the above, LG have made some duffers in the past but things are improving fast.

keep your ear to the ground ref the tech support you never know you might be pleasantly surprised....

.

LG worked hard to gain the the Golden Bollock award three years running, judging by some of the rantings on this site.

Does that mean that you'll be marketing kit that works and have technical support that knows what it's doing?

.

Brian_UK

19-01-2007, 06:48 PM

Welcome Hendrag to the forum.

Full marks to you for being brave enough to annouce your involvement with LG.

Lets hope that your hidden promise comes to fruition.

Andy W

19-01-2007, 10:35 PM

Discovered another fan speed board and 2 fan capacitors gone this week while carrying out maintenance, lost count now and my wholesaler still says save your breath, you have got no chance of getting parts under warranty from Shorts.

Renato RR

20-01-2007, 10:41 AM

Hendrag,where can we pick up service manuall for LG air con?

So big company and without good manuall.We instold about 100 LG units so far 1 problem with remote and one with fan of idoor unit but we also instold 100 Fuego and 30 Vivax and no problem at all.They are dgust noisi units with stif plastic parts.

So to conclude te 90% of yob is good instalation.I have more hadeike with chillers produced in EU then with split system produced in China.

Best regards,
Renato

LRAC

20-01-2007, 07:11 PM

I run the LG technical department, i agree with some but not all of the above, LG have made some duffers in the past but things are improving fast.

keep your ear to the ground ref the tech support you never know you might be pleasantly surprised....

How do you sleep at night? are you currently being recruited by Horlicks for their television campaign in the UK?

LG should never have entered the uk market without years of test running on sample sites, Lucky Goldstars name failed in the early 90's with their c**p televisions. But no they decide to relaunch under LG conning nearly all the UK customers out there.

LG products and technical assistance stink.

Lrac :( :( :( :( :( :(

Karl Hofmann

20-01-2007, 08:21 PM

Hendrag,

Fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice - Shame on me.

The embarrasment and cost to me of ripping out a two and a bit year old LG and replacing it with a similarly priced Sanyo, free of charge to the customer will stay with me for a very long time indeed :mad:

Abe

20-01-2007, 09:41 PM

The power of Marketing is the real culprit.

Multinationals use Marketing as a tool for market entry. This is when ill equipped products are launched rapidly into the market without " evolving"

Hence the expenditure of dollars catapulted the brand within a short space of time, using clever strategies, cheap prices, incentives, etc

Multinationals develop a branding, farm out production of virtually everything from cameras to washing machines, and paste their logo onto the product.

The brand is supposed to inbibe confidence in the product. But when you think on it, the brand is meaningless, all it is is an image, a perception which is enhanced by money.

The products are churned out by multiple factory units, who perfect the art of producing for anyone who buys in sufficient numbers to qualify for a brand name to be stuck on it.

Eastern companies have perfected the art of multi nation al operations......

Some do it better than others. In the end the consumers have spoken....

frank

22-01-2007, 10:22 AM

How do you sleep at night? are you currently being recruited by Horlicks for their television campaign in the UK?

LG should never have entered the uk market without years of test running on sample sites, Lucky Goldstars name failed in the early 90's with their c**p televisions. But no they decide to relaunch under LG conning nearly all the UK customers out there.

LG products and technical assistance stink.

Lrac :( :( :( :( :( :(

I gather from this that it's not your first choice when selecting equipment for your customers then LRAC :D :D :p

p_p

22-01-2007, 01:04 PM

Hi everyone, never installed LG but heard loads of horror stories, allways stuck with mitsi elec, never had a problem.
We fitted some vaillant kit recently and i have to say its prety good for the price, not in mitsi league but better than fujitsu. very handy when the customer wants good kit without the mitsi price, good backup & nice people to deal with. Give it a try.

Sir Josiah Sodd

22-01-2007, 02:11 PM

We fitted some vaillant kit recently and i have to say its prety good for the price, not in mitsi league but better than fujitsu. very handy when the customer wants good kit without the mitsi price, good backup & nice people to deal with. Give it a try.

Isn't that stuff made by Haier? I thought they were like LG but without the quality.

momo

25-01-2007, 12:21 AM

Vaillant ?!? We have come across them as shorter life gas water heaters - diversification ??? I doubt it - a container-ful you said - no problem - for when - we can fit xxx in for yyy remimbi !!! Sorry if you are from the P.R.C. but there is good, mediochre and rubbish being sold to Europe &... and fools buy it. What does it work like, backup? Spares? Usable manuals?

Dr._Fleck

30-01-2007, 02:34 PM

Momo! please post in English! Ak, ak, ak

Brian_UK

30-01-2007, 07:48 PM

Momo! please post in English! Ak, ak, akI thought his english was pretty good so please don't mock it. This is an international site remember.

Argus

30-01-2007, 08:26 PM

I thought his english was pretty good so please don't mock it. This is an international site remember.

My thoughts entirely, Brian. His English is probably better than our Spanish.

Dr Fleck, for a new poster, you are coming close to an infraction on day one.

Dr._Fleck

30-01-2007, 09:37 PM

Oophs, i didn't realise he was Spanish. Sorry. Lo siento

Andy W

31-01-2007, 07:57 AM

I installed 2 LG wall mounts last week, I was doing them with a mate who is not equipped for installations and it wasn't until I agreed that he told me they were LG.

The quality is still very poor, the air handlers still do not clip tight to the wall so with armaflex, pipe, drain pipe and cable there is a 1/4" gap around the bottom edge of the machine and the plastic is so soft the scratches on it already are shocking, overall I would still not touch one for myself with a barge pole.

hendrag

09-02-2007, 07:31 AM

Electrocoolman

11-02-2007, 03:36 PM

At long last LG are responding!
By the way its http://mylg.co.uk
Have read about sms message system in trade magazine. Not yet investigated rest of site.

Andy W

12-02-2007, 07:41 AM

The LG commissioning guide has just blown away every demand that Shorts Environmental make as an excuse to not honour warranties, I can see that I can take this further.

LRAC

12-02-2007, 07:56 AM

If you need tech info for LG units got to www.mylg.co.uk (http://www.mylg..co.uk) and look at the commissioning section or the fault code section. I appreciate all the comments above and take them very seriously. we are working very hard on improving the technical support and training for Lg products toi make everyones life easier. keep posting your questions and hopefully you will be happier with LGs service and quality in the future.

Hi Hendrag

Nice and simple web site just like the units cheap and chearful, a little worried by the com notes about pressure testing and the pressure drop relating to temp and pressure. I thought we used Nitrogen to stop the false leak indication?????

Kind regards
Lrac

hendrag

12-02-2007, 10:47 AM

ref the nitro bit. if you pressure test with nitrogen to say 600psi the pressure will be constant assuming no leaks and no temperature change. If the temperature of the system rises you will see an increase in pressure and if it falls the reverse happens.

You see this alot when you pressure test over long periods, try it in summer pump up to 600 in the afternoon when its hot and if you get to site in the morning when its maybee 10 degrees cooler it looks like you loose 20 psi.

ref the cheap and cheerful i agree as you can see im no web designer i will stick to the aircon.

regards

Mathew

14-08-2007, 11:24 PM

Does anyone know where I can download a Goldstar air conditioner manual for free model GA-1866VHR

sparrow

07-05-2008, 12:35 PM

Hi I think I will be needing the lg support tel number has anyone got one? midlands area.

Sparrow

monkey spanners

07-05-2008, 07:55 PM

Hi Cooltechsystems,

I haven't had and trouble with the new R410A art and mirrorcool systems but did have a couple of indoor circuitboard failures on the old R22 one years ago, i think the newer stuff is better.

Why not get yourself on the LG artcool course at slough and see for yourself what you think of the kit and the backup.

Jon

Brian_UK

08-05-2008, 12:29 AM

I think that LG have turned a corner and are now a better unit.

Contact Hendrag for more information on LG and their training courses.

Alex Harvey

08-05-2008, 01:44 PM

LG have enough years of fault testing in the market. Is this not Microsoft marketing. Release product on the market let your customers run test and fault find at their cost.

So are LG any better now or should you ask how much better the other manufactures have improved in the same period.

Daikin=Overated

11-05-2008, 05:15 PM

LOL.

Meowww. carefull, Frank may be listening.

It seems once again that Fujitsu is clearly far better than anything else. it's cheapish, and you can install and walk away leaving the end user to power up and chill out.

Ditto that!

I do love Fujitsu. Customer care, warranty and tech support (when rarely required) keep me coming back every time. I find them very relaible indeed.

Been in the trade since 1995 and would never use LG simply for it's poor reputation and overall cheap build quality. To this day I still have nothing to do with them.

Those trying to defend the brand, should really consider the fact that the damage has been done already (self-inflicted) Surely It's a pointless cause!

Abe

11-05-2008, 11:25 PM

LG have turned a corner and are a great product

Karl Hofmann

11-05-2008, 11:32 PM

LRAC

12-05-2008, 07:31 PM

In the last 4 months LG have raised there prices way above other decent names like Fujitsu etc.

Never,never,never buy LG :mad::mad::mad:

Thermatech

13-05-2008, 11:14 AM

In the last 4 months LG have raised there prices way above other decent names like Fujitsu etc.

Perhaps thats why the general manager has left LG and moved to Fujitsu a few weeks ago.

We did hear that the Koreans were making massive loss on uk a/c sales. If the Korean LG top brass have decided that they will no longer subsidise the uk a/c sales then contractors might have to start paying the real cost for the kit.

The LG distributors need to make a larger mark up on LG products to cover all the extra problems.So this makes the cost to the contractor even higher.

This type of kit can only sell in the uk if its is very very cheap.
If its sold at its real cost ,,,, lets see what happens.

Abe

17-05-2008, 01:48 AM

But Abe... Some of us who installed early models got burned and the only satisfaction I got was doing a "Basil Fawlty" on the one that I had to rip out and replace.

Fool me once.. Shame on you, fool me twice.. Shame on me

Im still nervy cos I burnt my fingers too with the 407 kit
These days I stick with Mitsu and Daikin, touch wood, no probs

Dan1947

17-05-2008, 11:05 PM

past two years i have been installing lg 4 out of 10 units we have probaly had a problem with back up poor and getting parts is a joke there wll behind other manufacturers we have just started installing mitsi heavy what a difference there spot on.

SUBCONTRACTOR

18-05-2008, 09:07 AM

Oh LG,Oh LG better stick to producing TV set don't mess around with air con world.

:mad:

hendrag

19-05-2008, 09:26 AM

Yep the general manager has left and gone to fujitsu, so would you for a 20 grand wage rise.
no we dont sell at a loss we are making a profit on aircon.
no we havnt raised the prices, whoever told you that was an idiot, the prices are the same os 2007 if the new discount structure is applied. ref technical support we are still here try ringing us on 08708720791 option 4 and you will be amazed how helpful we are.
and lastly all the info is on www.mylg.co.uk (http://www.mylg.co.uk) under fault codes and commissioning.
If your lg salesman is crap and hasnt told you all this before then please tell me i will be very happy to kick the arses of the lazy *******s .

end of rant

hendrag Technical manager LG

eggs

19-05-2008, 05:04 PM

we are making a profit on aircon.

Good on you, you must be the only ones making money on LG aircon, they have cost me a fortune. Perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing some of your profits to pay for some of my lost time going back to the things..........unexplained water leaks, louvre motors cracking fascia's, leaking discharge pipes, plastics that break soon as you look at them.

Eggs

paul_h

19-05-2008, 06:05 PM

Good on you, you must be the only ones making money on LG aircon, they have cost me a fortune. Perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing some of your profits to pay for some of my lost time going back to the things..........unexplained water leaks, louvre motors cracking fascia's, leaking discharge pipes, plastics that break soon as you look at them.

EggsCome on, no wonder why most people here don't give out their details. I know a couple of reps here that don't want others to know where the work, just so they avoid attacks like this.
Does everyone want to go on record and claim responsibility for everything that their works mates did when they worked for a medium company?
And that's just a medium company where theysaw them every week. How would it be if you worked for a multinational with the factory the other side of the world and you still took the blame for everything that went wrong?
At the end of the day, the fault lies will the people buying cheap a/cs anyway, you get what you pay for. And if you don't believe that how do you justify that you aren't the cheapest installer? I charge more because of my experience, therefore tell the customer "they get what they pay for", so I'd buy cheap a/cs with the same belief and if I get burnt I should have maybe expected it. Just like If I was the homeowner who saved $300 by getting an a/c installed by the local handyman rather than paying more and getting a refrig tech.

Other brands have the faults you listed too, pana and samsung were notorius for busted louvers, like wise fuji for leaking service valves. All in the past, all have improved, LG probably will too.

edit: If you don't like it move to australia, here you don't have to support what you install. Just throw it in, walk away and it's LGs problem as they supply warranty and labour through contracted service centres :D
Installers here make au$700 a day (300 pound?) for three installs a day without ever having to worry about warranty.

Abe

21-05-2008, 01:42 PM

edit: If you don't like it move to australia, here you don't have to support what you install. Just throw it in, walk away and it's LGs problem as they supply warranty and labour through contracted service centres :D
Installers here make au$700 a day (300 pound?) for three installs a day without ever having to worry about warranty.

Now thats a brilliant concept, if brands here give "accredited" installers the right to fit and forget, with a service centre to mop up any calls.

SUBCONTRACTOR

22-05-2008, 08:47 AM

Come on, no wonder why most people here don't give out their details. I know a couple of reps here that don't want others to know where the work, just so they avoid attacks like this.
Does everyone want to go on record and claim responsibility for everything that their works mates did when they worked for a medium company?
And that's just a medium company where theysaw them every week. How would it be if you worked for a multinational with the factory the other side of the world and you still took the blame for everything that went wrong?
At the end of the day, the fault lies will the people buying cheap a/cs anyway, you get what you pay for. And if you don't believe that how do you justify that you aren't the cheapest installer? I charge more because of my experience, therefore tell the customer "they get what they pay for", so I'd buy cheap a/cs with the same belief and if I get burnt I should have maybe expected it. Just like If I was the homeowner who saved $300 by getting an a/c installed by the local handyman rather than paying more and getting a refrig tech.

Other brands have the faults you listed too, pana and samsung were notorius for busted louvers, like wise fuji for leaking service valves. All in the past, all have improved, LG probably will too.

edit: If you don't like it move to australia, here you don't have to support what you install. Just throw it in, walk away and it's LGs problem as they supply warranty and labour through contracted service centres :D
Installers here make au$700 a day (300 pound?) for three installs a day without ever having to worry about warranty.

I absolutely agree that customers always tend to buy a cheaper stuff.Let us not mension prices of a/c let's talk about %. We choose 3.5 wall mount inverter

LG price and Mitsubishi price.What is the difference in % let me know.

Alex Harvey

22-05-2008, 04:12 PM

We did install Fujitsu units 8 years ago, although good equipment there were a number of call backs for some small problems. Service and back up were good. Decided to go with Daikin the last 8 years. No stupid problems and only a couple of problems in that time.

But since Daikin took over the distributors in the UK 3 years ago service levels have dropped off. Its hard to get someone on the phone. They have a major problem with customer service levels and no one seems to be able (or willing) to make a decision. For manufactures its best to sell through distributors where employees jobs depend on high levels of customer service. If they don't sell they don't have a job! When the manufacture sells direct that link just is not there.

That said the Daikin product is still very good

Prince Vaillant

29-05-2008, 10:34 PM

Hmm Vaillant have been testing their air con units in Germany for the past 3 years before releasing their units into the UK market, i do believe they are offering a two year warranty as well.
Ask any plumber who are the top manufaturers of domestic boilers etc, Vaillantwill be right up there. With the warranty at least the money is where the mouth is?

Thermatech

29-05-2008, 11:56 PM

The word is that the Vaillant units are made in China.
Air conditioning contractors were so disgusted with the Haier units that all the distributors who tried to sell them very soon gave up & sent the stock back. Then Haier had to withdraw from the UK market completely.

The advantage Vaillant has is that they will mainly tend to sell to plumbers who have absolutly no idea if the units are good quality or not.

So the Chinees get the products in through the back door re badged.

The real test will be if Vallant can sell these units to the larger established airconditioning contractors who are used to japan quality equipment.

Prince Vaillant

31-05-2008, 10:36 AM

LOL virtually all air con units are made in China! I had a DIY unit that was made by hungchungchongdong, the compressor was Mitsubishi. When did you last look where the components for these air con units were made?
Danfoss now have all their valves made in China, the pc you are looking at this on was made in china, why the negativity about chinese product? This is how i remember the Japanese stuff started with foreign markets because they are scared of change and competition!

Thermatech

31-05-2008, 04:33 PM

In the 70's we were installing Martair & qualitair split systems with crude electro mechanical controls.
Then the Japs started selling Tosh Mitsi Daikin cassette units with electronic controls.
There was simply no comparison between the advanced technology & quality of the Jap stuff & the crude equipment we had been used to.
So within a very short period of time the Japanese manufacturers came to dominate air conditioning market not because it was cheap but because it was much better.
Young fellas in the 70's & 80's bought Honda Susuki & Yamaha motorcycles because they were much better than the oily old british bikes & the British motorcycle industry collapsed.

While the Japs made a reputation for producing good quality high tech products the Chinese have always made the cheep poor quality products.

To my knowledge no Chinese manufacturer has yet produced a range of air conditioning products which are more technically advanced & better quality than the current premium quality Japanese products.
Have the Chinese got better R&D departments which can delevop systems with better COP energy effiency than all the other manufacturers ?
Is there any Chinese car manufacturer that makes better quality cars than Jags Merks & BMW's ?

Some good old marstair units may still be doing a good job years after Tosh & Mitsu units have been replaced but at least the Japanese kit saved the user a lot of electricity due to the energy saving technolgy developed by the Japanese manufacturers.

Based on what we have seen so far the Chinese equipment is unable to improve on the energy effiency of the Japanese equipment but is not likely to last as long. So no real benifit to purchase except slightly cheaper purchase price.

paul_h

31-05-2008, 09:06 PM

Japanese didn't invent any car when it was new.
Japanese didn't invent electronic circuitry back when it was new.
They excelled in reproduction.
Most japanese a/c brands get their a/cs assembled in china.
Chinese excell in reproduction.
Will the chinese start of with dodgey copies? YES
Did the japanese start of with dodgey copies? YES
It's only a matter of time.

Karl Hofmann

31-05-2008, 10:31 PM

Chinese excell in reproduction.

That is why there is so many of them...;)

Vaillant do indeed produce very good boilers, they design them themselves because this is what Vaillant are good at... Who designed the Vaillant heat pumps?

Speaking to Worcester Bosch rep the other day and he informed me that WB were introducing air to air Heat Pumps and also air to water Heat Pumps... The design of which was from a US based company, so it is hardly Worcester Bosch quality/ efficiency. I would suggest that the Vaillant kit would be the same

Inverter man

01-06-2008, 01:08 AM

Are you really Japanese man?

Karl Hofmann

01-06-2008, 01:26 AM

Are you really Japanese man?

No... I'm a Kraut. And after the sex change operation I'd be pleased if you called me Miss ;)

Prince Vaillant

01-06-2008, 12:10 PM

Hmmm Vaillant have been in the climate control business for about 130 years, i would say that they would know a thing or two when it comes to quality, more so than say Japanese telly makers! Does anyone here own a Vaillant TV, DVD or car?
I completely understand the issues we have with Chinese quality but Vaillant are a German company who as i said early put their money where their mouth is.

1999 125 years of Vaillant – 40 million units supplied. Quality process 'Vaillant Excellence' (since 1996) bears fruit: Vaillant wins the German quality prize.

Argus

01-06-2008, 01:17 PM

..........

I completely understand the issues we have with Chinese quality but Vaillant are a German company who as i said early put their money where their mouth is.

Nonetheless, even if the ground source heat pumps are designed in the Fatherland by Vaillant, their air source heat pumps are all made and badged in China, either by HAIER or increasingly by the other Chinese outfit that Vaillant have a "strategic alliance" with.

The name escapes me for the moment.... perhaps PV can remind us?

.

winefridge

02-06-2008, 11:54 AM

eggs

02-06-2008, 07:50 PM

Slightly off topic. Congratulations (http://www.heatingandventilating.net/news/news.asp?id=5252) or condolences;) to our Graham Hendra. Now we are all watching you.

Seriously, best wishes in your new post and well done.

eggs

ltrwebs

01-08-2008, 03:31 PM

:D:D:D

Ha ha ha

hendrag

08-08-2008, 12:02 PM

thanks eggs i will do my best to offer a good service to all. ref Vailiiant i have no comments i thought this string was about LG... Ref making units in China yep we all do it. If anyone has problems with Lg or there supplier please email me its now all my responsibility so all comments are welcome and i will do my best to solve them.

regards

Hendrag
General Manager LG Airconditioning UK

Hopper118

08-08-2008, 09:23 PM

"You pay for what you get" The most profound statement ever uttered. LG is probably one of the better quality of the "cheaper brands" and that is all it is, cheap a/c YOU WILL HAVE SNAGS (and LG will not be able to tell you why because they are not designed for UK ambient temps end of) If you want to fit and forget then quote for Mitsi,Daikin,Fujitsu,Panasonic etc. :cool:

Alex Harvey

11-08-2008, 01:26 PM

eggs

11-08-2008, 05:28 PM

I just come back from one of mine from about 5 years ago. CH4 fault.
8kw fixed speed cassette, never been serviced. It was still like brand new, quick clean of the sticking lift pump switch and off she went. I hope it's another five years before i get called back.

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say "i'm going to give them another shot" just to see if things have changed.
Not with an existing customer, just the next one off install enquiry who screws my price down to rock bottom.
They will be a guinne pig. I will report back.
While i'm at it i think i'll try one of those Vaillant units aswell.

eggs

multisync

11-08-2008, 07:33 PM

We all seem to be going around in circles here.

But with a technical head at the UK operation rather than a sales, things may change. With not so much of push for sales. I'm sure Graham will support the existing customers.

And the bottom line is the bottom line.. if the numbers don't add up- he walks..

Multisync
London

dibbo

12-08-2008, 04:24 PM

Hi Guy's

can any one help me with this problem.. I went to a LG ltd3681rj 10kw cassette system and found the condenser fan not working and the compressor not running but the compressor case was red hot. I was there for over 1 hour doing checks, the comp did not restart, not sure if it is the fan pcb faulty or the compressor, any help would be great

thanks

Brian_UK

12-08-2008, 11:24 PM

It's a bit tricky to answer that one...

What sort of checks did you perform without the compressor running?

Initial thoughts are a gas leak or, as you say, a faulty condenser fan.

We need more information.

paul_h

13-08-2008, 12:20 PM

I'd be checking the comp windings for open circuit, cooling the compressor down with wet rags until it stopped showing open circuit if it was. Checking supply voltages, contactors/relays, soft starters if fitted, and capacitors.
Reseting the power just to see the compressor run successfully. You need to see if the problem is the compressor, the supply, the condenser fan, or something else.

dibbo

13-08-2008, 12:41 PM

thanks for the reply, I checked the windings with my multi meter, power to the compressor,they were ok, put my guages on, Dirty oil and a slight burnt smell, that why i suspected the compressor,the comp has an internal klixon cut out the case was very very hot, a wet rag would not i feel bring the temp down, Suction pressure was off the scale's, this is an old unit 4/5 years old running on R407..gonna change fan pcb first, anyone got tel no of supplyers of lg PCB's

frank

13-08-2008, 09:58 PM

the case was very very hot, a wet rag would not i feel bring the temp down,

?????? Great statement!!!!!

dibbo

16-08-2008, 09:27 AM

?????? Great statement!!!!!

Hi Frank

this statment about the wet rag was made to me by a 20 year old veteran ac guy. it is not the sought of thing i would do myself, electrical saftey etc etc.

the same guy told me he has throne a bucket of water at the condenser to remove dust etc.

As for your comments (great statement) i find it insulting and a very poor and flipent comment to make when a member is looking for some help. I am a fully qualified AC / Refrigeration enginer Been through a full aprentiship ( not a 7 day course like some )

DIBBO

thebigcheese

16-08-2008, 05:55 PM

were abouts in ni chris?

airefresco

10-09-2008, 05:55 PM

Does anybody know what a CH32 fault code is on a LG Multi-split MC07AHM (AMNH076D2M0) is? Went to a site today from a couple who have bought a new house with the aboved mentioned unit installed (there´s actually 5 installed). They only just moved in the 2 units upstairs (one multi system) had no gas in and two downstairs (the other multi) shows CH32 on both indoors. Don´t know who installed them, but they didn´t leave any manuals just the controllers. I´m going back there in the morning to find the leak on the upstairs units, but it would be nice to repair the the downstairs too, while i´m there.

EDIT: already tried mylg.co.uk

cheers
paul..

sinewave

10-09-2008, 07:33 PM

All this aside if you take a look at the viewings of this thread (17,300 and sumat) tells you, 'there is a problem Houston!' :rolleyes:

airefresco

10-09-2008, 08:10 PM

Doesn´t matter, i´ve found it - CH32 Inverter Compressor Discharge Temperature Too High.

eggs

10-09-2008, 09:53 PM

Doesn´t matter, i´ve found it - CH32 Inverter Compressor Discharge Temperature Too High.

That's another one with a gas leak then! Happy hunting.

Eggs

airefresco

10-09-2008, 10:14 PM

nike123

11-09-2008, 09:54 AM

Yeah, looks that way. To be honest it´s not a brilliant install. Apparently it was only put in 6 months ago, but the outdoors look like they are 5 or 6 years old, the grilles on the fans are completely rusted and there´s several other spots of rust on the feet and outdoor casing. Is this normal for LG units? All the pipework was put in when they were building the house, so I don´t hold out much hope of gaining easy access to it. I´m praying the leak(s) are on the outdoor flares, but we all know they´re not going to be. :(

From my experience in cases like this, I would check flared pipe surface for scratches. If found on more than one flared surface, you have to cut all flared pipe ends and make new, proper one, because person who did flaring have bad tool or flaring practice. Than make pressure (leak) test with nitrogen for 24 hours.

Alex Harvey

11-09-2008, 01:48 PM

MRTENNENTS

11-09-2008, 06:28 PM

Cuppa? Hell you can imagine the factory workers at lg with their feet up proclaiming "lifes good!"

MRTENNENTS

11-09-2008, 06:31 PM

Aye....ch32 is channel 32......coz the confused unit thinks its a telly!

paul_h

11-09-2008, 06:42 PM

I have known a hair line crack on the flare. The leak was so small and would take a couple of weeks to loose enough of the charge to effect the duty. The cracked flare could not be seen with the naked eye or detected with leak detector.

Needless to say this was only found after a number of call backs.

Not on a LG unit and was some number of year ago. I've seen a couple of cracked flares, normally they are obvious and get bigger cracks when you tighten them. Interesting to hear of one that exists but never gets visible.
But it's not likely in this case with three units having low refrig charge, I'd oput my money on bad flares.
edit:

Cuppa? Hell you can imagine the factory workers at lg with their feet up proclaiming "lifes good!"
Aye....ch32 is channel 32......coz the confused unit thinks its a telly!
WTH?

airefresco

11-09-2008, 07:50 PM

Well you were all kinda right. The first unit had a bad 1/4 flare on the indoor. The edge was a little cracked, only a really small crack but the leak detector found it. The other one was the 3/8 flare wasn´t tight enough. While I was there I also found that there is no earth to the outdoor units. I kept getting a belt off the bracket. Only a little bit, but it was enough to make me check the connections.

briza83

10-07-2009, 03:52 PM

---------------------

Mod's Comment:

This is an engineer's forum - not a bog wall. We've heard all that nonsense before.

momo

13-07-2009, 01:15 AM

Yeah, looks that way. To be honest it´s not a brilliant install. Apparently it was only put in 6 months ago, but the outdoors look like they are 5 or 6 years old, the grilles on the fans are completely rusted and there´s several other spots of rust on the feet and outdoor casing. Is this normal for LG units? All the pipework was put in when they were building the house, so I don´t hold out much hope of gaining easy access to it. I´m praying the leak(s) are on the outdoor flares, but we all know they´re not going to be. :(

How near are the units to the coast? You mention the casing, what about the electronics? It seems like measuring the thickness of paint ;-) and rust is a good measure of the quality of A/Cs nowadays LOL.

airefresco

14-07-2009, 09:18 AM

Everything is close to the coast here, it´s not that big of a place, :)

To be honest I don´t really remember this job too well, it´s been a while.

Alex Harvey

14-07-2009, 02:45 PM

By the coast or not the units should not rust after six months. This indicates the metal were not de-greased before painting. You should take this up with LG as there is a 3 year warranty.

naan72

14-07-2009, 05:03 PM

We used to put in 100k a years worth of LG splits and multi splits. We had loads of 'warrenty' issues! We even had lg's own engineers out to one job which didnt work if you wired the control as they instructed but did the 'incorrect' way we did. They walked away completley baffled.
It worked out in the end that it cost us 5k in one year drivin round the country putting brand new kit right. After 2 years they agreed to pay us the money and we started installing Mitsi'.

airefresco

14-07-2009, 07:14 PM

By the coast or not the units should not rust after six months. This indicates the metal were not de-greased before painting. You should take this up with LG as there is a 3 year warranty.

I completely agree with you. Most of that cheapo chinese stuff you see around lasts a good couple of years before it starts to rust. In LG´s defence the climate out here is extreme. The older style Samsung units tend to last about 18 months - 2 years before they go rusty and that´s about average for most makes I have seen. The only units I have seen out here that seem to last a reasonable long time without rusting is Daikin and Panasonic. Maybe they use a different type of paint or something?

I never did follow up on this, for two reasons.

A) I didn´t do the install, and never got paid from the builder for doing the repairs, so i´m not really that bothered.

B) They would only give (I imagine) a 2 year warranty here. And even then, it´s not worth the hassle most of the time to get stuff done under warranty. That applies for everything, not just air conditioning.

rayn

18-11-2009, 01:26 PM

I thought the first reply to Chris would have been - "Oh no! not another LG question?!?!"

dude i need 2 know how the f did u write upside down?????????:off topic:

rayn

18-11-2009, 01:31 PM

another thing.... yup u guessed it an lg split.... packed its bags n split, this time not lgs fault.... i dont think, had a storm last night thing turned off wont turn back on can any1 help? any suggestions would b gr8ly appreciated.

rayn

18-11-2009, 03:15 PM

so really they called themselves that coz u should thank ur lucky goldstars it still works then they changed to if it still works lifes good???

Brian_UK

18-11-2009, 07:38 PM

dude i need 2 know how the f did u write upside down?????????:off topic:
It's the wonder of Google.... :D

http://www.sherv.net/flip.html

Imp

25-11-2009, 09:18 AM

I thought LG was supposed to be improving. Looks like the CH33 nightmare has returned. Their prices are not what they were. You can get better kit for similar pricing.
Cheapest wall mounts on the market are not LG.
Remember also that LG manufacture specifically for DOMESTIC use. Their commercial units are fraught with problems.
I'm not sure if this still applies but their commerical units never used to heat until the return air temp was 14°C. Now wheres the point of that when you want the heating to come on before you get to work?

dangcornish

27-01-2010, 12:43 AM

Lg art cool gallery lasted 10 days before the pot went , to my joy mannaged to blag a new condening unit from wholesaler.(result) Only to install and the old girl comes up with a fault, flashing lights whats all this i ask? take a look at LG support page it STATES INDOOR UNIT AIR ON THERMISTOR FAULT, SCROLL DOWN TO VIEW A MORE DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THIS FAULT..........SCROLLS DOWN TO READ OUTDOOR THERMISTOR ERROR.........ABSOLUTE CLASSIC!!

stevewood

28-01-2010, 04:39 PM

riojaonly

29-06-2011, 02:32 PM

Brian_UK

29-06-2011, 10:31 PM

Here we are mid 2011....any improvement in LG?

I'm an end user looking at an LG vrf (multi-v) for residence in South Florida. From an uneducated consumer's standpoint (me), LG has some of the slickest looking indoor units (art cool) and best pricing. But if they're still crap on the inside, I need to move on.

Anyone have anything good to say about LG?

Have a look at this recent tead on the subject...
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?32107-LG-Air-Conditioning-are-they-reliable

Alex Harvey

30-06-2011, 11:25 AM

This thread has been going for a long time and LG should have improved. They have been less aggressive in going for market share in the UK in the last few years and the equipment maybe applied better.

The Artcool units are for the domestic home user and sell on looks rather than pratical function. LG are relative new comers to the VRF market and I would ask for reference to customer with equipment installed locally if I was you.

Here we are mid 2011....any improvement in LG?

I'm an end user looking at an LG vrf (multi-v) for residence in South Florida. From an uneducated consumer's standpoint (me), LG has some of the slickest looking indoor units (art cool) and best pricing. But if they're still crap on the inside, I need to move on.

Anyone have anything good to say about LG?

charlie patt

30-06-2011, 06:49 PM

leave it alone still have probe faults/ thats my opinion have left alone for 3 years and did have a good wholesaler they convinced me to try another unit the new vr with 12 indoors all came packed up well so just before the install i took of inspection panel to view the quality of kit as i got feed up with call backs to my horror what a mess the quality of clamps and braize was poor, did not bother fitting it ordered a mhi the best bit was there was hardly any diff in money the only reason i tried again was the fact the wholesalers are very good and i told them to call me when they dropped lg