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r.bartlett
03-10-2012, 04:09 PM
chaps

we are about to start a decommission and install for some VRF. the client has requested a contract to be in place before he agrees the deposit. neither I nor he has any experience of this (his manager is requesting this is in place no him)


we are project managing the whole works inc the elctrical and access additions.total project is 110k (most of which isn't mine :-(

has anyone got a template that they can send over which can cover this. i have concerns that we (both him and I) will sign something we really don't understand the legalities but hey ho we're not building a hospital here!

TIA

hookster
03-10-2012, 04:56 PM
Hi
My advice would be to use a JCT contract.
http://www.jctltd.co.uk/category/contract-families

The cost of contract will pay for its self should problems arise. 110K can end up to be a very expensive outlay without some protection in place. There is a mine field opening up for you Quote"we are project managing the whole works inc the elctrical and access additions." with a deposit try to get as close to your material outlay as possible, remember that suppliers and taxman will close you down fast with payment delays.

Do not agree to any consequential losses or indirect losses and try limit to your liability to the value of the project!

Put as much detail into your scope of works as possible.
Quote: "hey ho we're not building a hospital here!" :confused: The stress of a no contract with massive liabilities will send you to one fast!

Please just take this all as some advice that you really do need to follow.



These points you may not feel necessary but they are critical to your business and progress going forward, get in to the habit now!

r.bartlett
03-10-2012, 05:13 PM
I have already looked at these but not quite sure which one would be of benefit. D&B ?small works etc

al
03-10-2012, 05:30 PM
Richard

You'd really want to be giving Abe or a solicitor a shout.

al

hookster
03-10-2012, 05:44 PM
This is down to your complete scope of works, are you working to a tender document etc
If it is not too complex a minor works should surfice.

The design aspect of the VRF is where your specifics in the scope can protect you. Lets say you fitted a cooling/heating system replacing an old R22 multi cassettes. Its all shiny and new you are proud of your install and the lady at one end wants heating and the man at the other likes cooling (This is the AC normal battle).
Client now says you did not replace a like for like system as they were achieving this before your shiny "white elephant"

Grizzly
03-10-2012, 07:27 PM
This is down to your complete scope of works, are you working to a tender document etc
If it is not too complex a minor works should surfice.

The design aspect of the VRF is where your specifics in the scope can protect you. Lets say you fitted a cooling/heating system replacing an old R22 multi cassettes. Its all shiny and new you are proud of your install and the lady at one end wants heating and the man at the other likes cooling (This is the AC normal battle).
Client now says you did not replace a like for like system as they were achieving this before your shiny "white elephant"

Not lost your touch with the words then Hookster!
"He does speak with more than a little knowledge on this!"
Grizzly

r.bartlett
03-10-2012, 07:47 PM
This is down to your complete scope of works, are you working to a tender document etc
If it is not too complex a minor works should surfice.

The design aspect of the VRF is where your specifics in the scope can protect you. Lets say you fitted a cooling/heating system replacing an old R22 multi cassettes. Its all shiny and new you are proud of your install and the lady at one end wants heating and the man at the other likes cooling (This is the AC normal battle).
Client now says you did not replace a like for like system as they were achieving this before your shiny "white elephant"

Actually it's a very simple job. Replace 28 ducted 3 pipe with the same. (although we are uprating from 2 to 2.8kw) everything else stays the same. However they want me to 'manage' the job which includes the electrical supplies to the new outdoor unit location (s) and support steels for them. That's it. Nothing out of the ordinary or different from what they have to what they are getting

Most installs like this work from a simple fag packet quote but the previous manager put in place all these over the top conditions (CDM H&S contracts Vesting agreements etc ) he no longer has any involvement and now no one is willing to drop them as they are worried it will backfire on them. Understandable but as I said to the guy left holding the baby a proper contract is in the realms of a lawyer and we will end up signing it not fully comprehending what it is we're signed up too and what the contract actually entails...

Brian_UK
03-10-2012, 11:16 PM
Not a great expert in these matters by any means but my thought would be...

If the customer wants a contract then it is up to the customer to provide that contract for signed by the contractor.

If the contactor, having checked the terms himself and via his solicitor if needed, decides that he doesn't like the terms of the contract the either attempt to get the contract amended or pull out of the project.

I appreciate that no-one wants to turn down work but if the end result could be a major financial loss then it is not worth it.

eggs
03-10-2012, 11:38 PM
What a refreshing piece of common sense.

Eggs



Not a great expert in these matters by any means but my thought would be...

If the customer wants a contract then it is up to the customer to provide that contract for signed by the contractor.

If the contactor, having checked the terms himself and via his solicitor if needed, decides that he doesn't like the terms of the contract the either attempt to get the contract amended or pull out of the project.

I appreciate that no-one wants to turn down work but if the end result could be a major financial loss then it is not worth it.

Magoo
04-10-2012, 03:43 AM
Basically break down the job into easy and managable steps that you can estimate costs etc.,
You can do an open book contract with estimated costs and declared margins over costs.
Next would be a fixed contract price, screw up and loose your shirt, next would be contracted price with varaitions for non expected costs and client change of mind things, variations.
Add a contingency factor as a pc sum of estimated costs overall, ( the recovery edge for coc ups ) . Do not forget engineering costs ( your pre contract costs ) site establishments costs, and health and safety costs and contract insurance cover.

r.bartlett
04-10-2012, 06:44 AM
Basically break down the job into easy and managable steps that you can estimate costs etc.,
You can do an open book contract with estimated costs and declared margins over costs.
Next would be a fixed contract price, screw up and loose your shirt, next would be contracted price with varaitions for non expected costs and client change of mind things, variations.
Add a contingency factor as a pc sum of estimated costs overall, ( the recovery edge for coc ups ) . Do not forget engineering costs ( your pre contract costs ) site establishments costs, and health and safety costs and contract insurance cover.

The job has been fully costed and agreed. Everything is in place and 2 PO's have been issued already. The job is going ahead and we are on board. It's taken all al 5 years to get to this point so I'm not letting go. I will thrash it out this morning with the manager and get something sorted.


Thanks to all btw

Abe
04-10-2012, 09:21 PM
Richard

You'd really want to be giving Abe or a solicitor a shout.

al

I will be happy to sort out the contract for you, either draft it or look over the contract if the customer is providing it. I can do both JCT or ICE Contracts, tailored to your specific requirement. Send me a PM