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5th Day Records
26-09-2012, 04:40 PM
Hi all,

Apologies for my very first post being a question but I could really use some help with a project I've got on at the moment. I'm currently about 80% of the way through building a very modest recording studio/rehearsal room in our garden. Here's what's been done so far:

1. Due to planning regulations we had to go for a non-brick building, so we chose an "off the shelf" wooden cabin (20' x 12' external measurement) built with the thickest width of timbre the company could supply (44mm):

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg489/lucie_uk/IMG_0067.jpg

2. After applying acoustic sealant I set to building an internal leaf, using a combination of stud wall, rockwool and plasterboards. The internal leaf is dislocated from the external to cut down transfer of vibrations:

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg489/lucie_uk/Studio-Rockwoolinsitu.jpg

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg489/lucie_uk/Studio-plasterboardsecondlayer-sealed.jpg

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg489/lucie_uk/IMG_0314.jpg

As the build will be absolutely air-tight once the inner and outer doors are sealed I'm in need of a system that does it all really, something that brings in fresh air and removes the stale, that can also heat or cool the room (living in the UK, in the Midlands by Birmingham, means it's going to get pretty cold in there during the winter months) and that is, importantly, very, very quiet.

We were quoted by a company on a Mitsubishi floor mounted split system with pipe work control cabling and pumps/drains (MFZ-KA35VA2 Floor mounted unit with R410a heat pump and an SUZ-KA35VA2 heat pump condensing unit with R410a heat pump) and the supply, installation and commissioning came to 1978 excluding VAT @20% and excluding any timeclock controller. Unfortunately, at this stage of the build our budget is pretty much exhausted and finding just shy of 2400 is beyond our reach.

Would anyone be able to point us in the right direction for systems that suit are needs that might be a bit more affordable (or indeed companies that could carry out the work?)? The one system I found myself that seemed to tick all the boxes was the Daikin Ururu Sarara FTXR42E/RXR28E 4.2kw wall mounted inverter heat pump system but even that is at the very limit of our budget (and almost definitely over it with fitting etc.):

http://www.aircon247.com/p/1216052/daikin-ururu-sarara-ftxr42erxr28e-42kw-wall-mounted-inverter-heat-pump-system-.html

If anyone has any advise it would be incredibly appreciated as we really don't know which way to turn at the moment.

Cheers,

Leigh.

The Viking
26-09-2012, 05:47 PM
Leigh,

Sorry but I will have to be the bearer of bad news.

Having worked with recording studios in the past I have to tell you that no split system will ever be quiet enough for your needs.
The only type of systems suitable for your usage will be externally mounted ducted units with noise attenuators fitted in the ductwork, the price for these will start at somewhere around 7k by the time it is installed.

The cheaper option would be to fit an electrical radiator to give you heat in the winter and a self draught system to use ambient air to cool you when you don't need heating.
Think of it as fresh air entering at low level and warm air exiting at high level.
In practice you will again need attenuators to keep the ambient noise (bird song?) out, probably a 90 bend to a tubular attenuator fitted horizontally and fitted with an inlet mesh about a foot above ground and another attenuator fitted as a chimney to the roof. Both supply and extract will probably need to be 250-300mm
Manual dampers inside will give you some level of control. All for a cost of about 1k if you fit it yourself.

Hot summer days?
Go to the beach... :cool:


.

r.bartlett
26-09-2012, 05:57 PM
we have actually fitted splits to recording booths. The sound engineers know their limits and simply turn them off during any critical moments if the need too as a daikin wall mount at 30 db is pretty quiet in all honesty..

5th Day Records
26-09-2012, 06:28 PM
Many thanks both. :) 30db is definitely acceptable for day to day running and when recording vocals etc, turning off the unit is definitely the plan (I've been in a few studios where that's the general practice). I think I'd be a bit rubbish at fitting anything like this myself however the builder and electrician that have been working with me are friends so maybe it's something they could take on depending on how complicated it is! I'm trying to keep the build as "sealed" as is physically possible (er...despite ruddy great big holes needed in the walls! ;) ) which is why I was gravitating to a split system but I'm totally happy to consider other options...this is an area I really don't know much about!

Brian_UK
26-09-2012, 11:15 PM
My main concern is that you are producing a 'sealed' room.

Split AC units do not provide fresh air intake or vitiated air extract.

You maybe should be considering some form of air ventilation system with built in heat exchanger to provide the basic necessities of life giving fresh air. CO2 build up will make a very sleepy working environment.

[edit] Found this via Google as an example..
http://www.villavent.co.uk/heat-recovery-ventilators.htm

install monkey
26-09-2012, 11:24 PM
daikin ururu sarara have a 3/4 flexihose that connects indoor/outdoor- which will provide fresh air- doubt you get 10ltr per minute- as you say brian-a sealed room- will create high humidity and mould
My main concern is that you are producing a 'sealed' room.

Split AC units do not provide fresh air intake or vitiated air extract.

You maybe should be considering some form of air ventilation system with built in heat exchanger to provide the basic necessities of life giving fresh air. CO2 build up will make a very sleepy working environment.

[edit] Found this via Google as an example..
http://www.villavent.co.uk/heat-recovery-ventilators.htm

r.bartlett
27-09-2012, 07:13 AM
a sound room will create a lot of sensible heat and the a/c will dehumidify.. however I too recommend some ventilation and a std split

http://www.justfans.co.uk/retrovent-single-room-heat-recovery-p-822.html

5th Day Records
28-09-2012, 06:58 PM
Sorry, I wasn't clear over my thoughts re: the Daikin - after a bit of searching I started considering that particular model due it's ability to bring in fresh air. Do you think it would be insuficient for a room of this size and nature? Price-wise, the difference between the Daikin model and a Villavent system is negligible. I take it people are leaning more towards the latter due to it being a sealed room? My only concern from looking at some of the customer reports is that the Villavent unit can apparently be quite noisy even on standard setting. As I mentioned before I'm more than prepared to turn it off during mic recording sessions but as clean air is going to be needed regularly as it's quite a small space, the idea of it thrumming in the background when I'm editing isn't something I relish. Does anyone have any first-hand advice on how a heat exchanger sounds/performs and if it will do everything I need it to - aside from exchanging the air, also regulating the temperature of the room to accomodate the summer/winter months...and one be installed with some sort of baffle to cut down the ingress/egress of vibrations/sound waves (apologies for the noob questions!).

That heat exchanger from Justfans also seems remarkably cheap! Would that really do everything I need it to?

Brian_UK
28-09-2012, 11:48 PM
Any mechanical system installed in a good sound studio should be isolated from the structure.

Ductwork should include noise attenuators, flexible isolating joints where it enter the studio and of course airflow rates should be low velocity.

The problem just grows and grows doesn't it? :)

5th Day Records
30-09-2012, 12:32 AM
Any mechanical system installed in a good sound studio should be isolated from the structure.

Ductwork should include noise attenuators, flexible isolating joints where it enter the studio and of course airflow rates should be low velocity.

The problem just grows and grows doesn't it? :)

By the sounds of it you seem quite pleased that it does, lol! I've overcome far, far worse than this, believe me ;) Thankfully I already have the above on stand-by (the parts at any rate). I'm acutely aware of the need for dislocation, particularly between rigid surfaces, to prevent (or at least severely reduce) transmission of low frequency waves but as I've just never fitted either a mini-split or a heat transfer system I have no first hand knowledge to draw on as to which would suit my needs best and, sadly, I don't have the funds to correct a mistake or poorly judged purchase, hence why I thought I'd come and ask you good folk for advice :) If the general consensus comes down to a "take your pick", you pays your money you takes your choice decision then it looks like I have a bit more research to do. At least I'll be going away with another option I didn't have when I arrived which is something :)