to cool home wine storage room

[gwm121]

Good afternoon all.

Anyone know a ducted or wallmount system, suitable for home, probably 2.5kw or 3.5kw, quiet that would cool a 15 ft by 6 ft wine storage room in a home to wine temperature, I guess that’s about 10 or 12 degrees??

This customer already has a ducted daikin . RXS25 E2V1 2.5kw unit installed with a XH200 (non daikin )remote controller which goes down to 8 degrees. Condenser doesn’t come on at present, and I don’t think it ever worked… as far as I know these units are only designed to go to about 18 degrees before icing problems.

Being ducted, and built in, the electrics box cant easily be accessed, but if customer exposes this, without the daikin controller is there any way to force the compressor to start, in order to diagnose problem. (Please dont advise fit daikin parts and run.. if no other solution that is what Ill do)

[still learning]

get the proper thing for the job.
a ducted or wall mount is not right.
wine storage need the right thing for the job.
the wall mout or ducted will turn into a mould ball.
due to the spores from the wine so iam told .
i dont mind being told i am wrong .
but i have found very moldy splits cooling wine in the past.
there is the right machine for the job out there . pub cellar coolers are to noisy in domestic enviroment imho.
good luck.

[install monkey]

http://www.zanotti.com/site/page.wplus?ID_COUNT=unita_split_bi-block&LN=2
monoblock is easiest, quieter than a celler cooler- fridge will cool to 10 deg for white wine,red is meant to be room temp

[chemi-cool]

Wine is kept at 16 >17C.

[install monkey]

thats prob with a 40 deg ambient your fridge is struggling! haha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_of_wine tips on wine storage courtesy of wikipedia

Wine is kept at 16 >17C.

[gwm121]

tHANK YOU FOR ALL REPLIES.... ESPECIALLY INSTAL MONKEY, ive seen other posts of yours and allways concise to the point and helpfull... thx

i am going to present customer with option of treating it as a standad room running 24 hrs, with a minimum of 16 or 18 degrees,using 3.5kw if i can.

SO ONE MORE QUESTION please.... apart from Daikin 7kw wallmounts, what other standard split systems of around 3.5kw, hi wallmount maybe, show 16 degrees on remote controller..or even get there if oversized.... all the ones ive installed recently..Fujitsu Mitsi heavy are 18 degrees.

[monkey spanners]

Get the duty sized by the wholesalers, if duty is not too high then a gravity coil might work with no noise issues. Depends on customers budget.

[Dunno_Daikin]

get the proper thing for the job.
a ducted or wall mount is not right.
wine storage need the right thing for the job.
the wall mout or ducted will turn into a mould ball.
due to the spores from the wine so iam told .
i dont mind being told i am wrong .
but i have found very moldy splits cooling wine in the past.
there is the right machine for the job out there . pub cellar coolers are to noisy in domestic enviroment imho.
good luck.
I see them being moldy too. Happens to most splits that have to run almost constantly. They either ice up or go moldy. Other thing to worry about is if the wine has corks, they are going to dry out. Need a proper cooler with lower TD to keep humidity up. And if the wine is worth anything, maybe a humidifier as well.

[r.bartlett]

http://www.eurocave.co.uk/cellar-conditioners

[Dunno_Daikin]

http://www.eurocave.co.uk/cellar-conditioners
They've made a 'weatherwall'* a/c look good and charge £3000 for it!

*a/cs pictured on the left on this site http://www.airconditionerremoval.com.au/

[r.bartlett]

They've made a 'weatherwall'* a/c look good and charge £3000 for it!

*a/cs pictured on the left on this site http://www.airconditionerremoval.com.au/

controls humidity as well. I agree it's over priced but it's a good bit of kit

[Dunno_Daikin]

OK.
I first looked at it and thought, wow, pricey. Is it just expensive because wine snobs want fancy designer looking stuff?
Then I wanted to see how it worked/piped etc, and it has to be on an external wall and you have to knock two massive holes out because it's a glorified weatherwall. Saw nothing in it as far as a humidifier either. I can't see how it control humidity except for drying. Sure better than a split a/c as it would be designed for lower TD (most probably).
http://i.imgur.com/afzzt.png

[install monkey]

it does say humidity is to prevent the wine corks from drying out and corking can affect the taste, but by laying the bottles horizontal the wine will keep the corks moist- you need to know if hes storing a few bottles of cheap plonk or he's a conisseur and storing bottles of wine older than me dead grandma and costing more than i earnt last year- then give him the option of a cheap way of maintaining setpoint or if he wants to go to town with temperature/moisture controlled all singing and dancing peice of kit-if so then allow for a 8 inch core cutter and extension bars and get surveying-because theyd probably want it on an internal wall!! haha

[Dunno_Daikin]

Too right.
There's a bunch of wine snobs in australia, and of course the weather here gets really hot so they all want cooling solutions.
I've whacked a split a/c in for some guy who wanted to put something in their to cool his tiny wine collection on day's over 20C, and the cellar was just a 1.2m high crawlspace under the house with dirt floor! Because of the setup and because all he wanted was cooling for the really hot summer days, and because nothing special was ever going to go in that 'cellar' I agreed, with a warning that don't run that a/c everyday or try to get it below 20C

Also done some work on proper cellars with proper gear in cellars under full blown mansions many times, done with the proper gear and condition monitoring.

Funniest was some guy with a very large old house close to the city, bought the cheapest a/c, and had a very large wine collection. Crying he was when that cheap a/c broke down in the 40C+ summer, and he wanted same day service and repair (on a weekend) from someone who was not the installer, but just a warranty service agent for that brand who didn't give a crap and wouldn't get parts for a week or more even if they were willing to come look at it on a saturday.

Most of all I'd be worried about any liability if I recommended a system that was improper use, eg that guy crying I mentioned, I laughed and said that cheap chinese domestic a/c is not designed to run 24/7 at 16C. I wouldn't want someone with a hugely expensive wine collection to come after me just because I earnt $600 for recommending and installing a cheap domestic split a/c for them and they had the cellar the size of that guy I mentioned under a $2+million house filled to the roof with wine.

[install monkey]

expensive hobby storing grape juice!! haha-thats why i drink lager-i keep it in the fridge- if the fridge dies then buy a new one, beer does have a long shelf life,but it never lasts long- you usually find the more money they have the tighter, they are when it comes to spending

[Dunno_Daikin]

'glorious beacon of light' is right :D
Mind you it's winter here and drink proper beer (dark ales and stouts) this time of year, so I don't even need the fridge!
but you are right about "if the fridge dies then buy a new one", which is why I'm trying to forget refrig and learn more a/c. But fricken daikins man... Puts me off the whole idea.

[install monkey]

u need any manuals?

'glorious beacon of light' is right :D
Mind you it's winter here and drink proper beer (dark ales and stouts) this time of year, so I don't even need the fridge!
but you are right about "if the fridge dies then buy a new one", which is why I'm trying to forget refrig and learn more a/c. But fricken daikins man... Puts me off the whole idea.

[monkey spanners]

I store my wine at the shop, right next to the beer.

I did some work years ago in a big wine cellar at a large manor house outside marlborough, they had a member of staff follow me at all times incase i stole anything FFS! so i kept locking my tool box up everytime i had to got to the van for parts.

Feckers phoned and complained!

[Slim R410a]

tHANK YOU FOR ALL REPLIES.... ESPECIALLY INSTAL MONKEY, ive seen other posts of yours and allways concise to the point and helpfull... thx

i am going to present customer with option of treating it as a standad room running 24 hrs, with a minimum of 16 or 18 degrees,using 3.5kw if i can.

SO ONE MORE QUESTION please.... apart from Daikin 7kw wallmounts, what other standard split systems of around 3.5kw, hi wallmount maybe, show 16 degrees on remote controller..or even get there if oversized.... all the ones ive installed recently..Fujitsu Mitsi heavy are 18 degrees.


I far as I know all the Mitsi Electric M Series wall mounts go down to 16degC on the remote.

[install monkey]

http://www.wineenthusiast.com/grand-cru-800-wine-cellar-cooling-unit-(black)-(max-room-size-=-100-cu-ft).asp
350 bucks plus shipping! and with humidity control- may be crap but it does the job

[eggs]

I make my own country wine and it keeps fine for years just in my garage. I have built an insulated room in there and it has an oil filled rad for when the temp drops to below 12 deg C.
Even on the hottest days here in Wigan the room temp never goes above 16 deg C.

[install monkey]

MOONSHINE! distillery in wigan!!! is that why the ben johnson pub on goose green empty?? :D

I make my own country wine and it keeps fine for years just in my garage. I have built an insulated room in there and it has an oil filled rad for when the temp drops to below 12 deg C.
Even on the hottest days here in Wigan the room temp never goes above 16 deg C.

[ulusker]

Our solution for wine cellars is simple, all what you need is modification on indoor unit... We using Fujitsu outdoor units and for the indoor part, you need to use bigger exchanger(so he can manage cool down room for 10-12 degrees) plus ATW-C-INV (http://www.impromat.cz/KLIMA/user_data/File/ATW_Inverter_eng08.pdf) module and ATW-D control panel. For indoor unit is possible use also normal Fujitsu split unit(need to be bigger then outdoor unit,because of the temperature requirements) then take out PCB and replace it with ATW-C-INV module, set up temperature in the computer or on ATW-D and job is done.

[Dunno_Daikin]

I wouldn't be game to take on the a/c warranty and liability personally for something like that.
What type of warranty do you guys offer for that? Do you cover everything that fujitsu made out of your own pocket, like compressor/inverter/pcbs etc?

[Dunno_Daikin]

Don't most a/cs these days just have a fault code for mismatched units and fail to run if they are different sizes?
When I when can i finally edit my own posts?

[ulusker]

We are distributors of the Fujitsu in Czech Republic, but Fujitsu is not able to do something like that for us, so we developed this modules for our customers and selling them to the europe. Don't worry they are tested and certified after many years with no problems and of course because they are able to communicate with outdoor units, there is not fault code for mismatch. But as you said.. Fujitsu in case of some damage woulnt be happy.

[monkey spanners]

We are distributors of the Fujitsu in Czech Republic, but Fujitsu is not able to do something like that for us, so we developed this modules for our customers and selling them to the europe. Don't worry they are tested and certified after many years with no problems and of course because they are able to communicate with outdoor units, there is not fault code for mismatch. But as you said.. Fujitsu in case of some damage woulnt be happy.

IMI used to do something similar for server rooms, had an oversized indoor unit to cope with the low latent heat of the application. Not bad kit but noisey!

[install monkey]

no issues with indoor coils freeing as the fin spacing is close- with removing indoor pcb does ur controller detect coil freeze up protection- expensive for buying a split then controllers:)

[ulusker]

Our controller has a temp.sensors.. so its no problem with freezing.But I'm just tech support... dealing with people when they have problems, not selling :)

[Dunno_Daikin]

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?36357-ACC-Modules

:confused:

[ulusker]

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?36357-ACC-Modules

:confused:

Sorry for the possible confusion, this is it because Im new in the company... and learning about modules... looking for feedback from people... not just what the colleagues says :)