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View Full Version : Hi and Lo Side pressure much too high on newly built R134a system..(95 Chevy Truck)



b9box
12-07-2012, 08:40 PM
I've been rebuilding/servicing my automotive AC systems for 30 years, up to this point only R-12 on many different Chevy trucks. My background is electronics engineer, but I have a reasonable understanding of refrigeration, lost count how many I've built/recharged over the years. Perhaps just short on some of the little details (which is everything as we all know.) This is first R134a though.

I completely rebuilt the AC system on this 1995 Chevy truck. The only original parts are the evaporator and the bottom line going from it to the condenser. I flushed these both with a full can of flush, blew out with dry air for :mad:at least an hour. It's all new, Condenser, even main hose, Delphi R4 style compressor, of course new accumulator and orifice tube. I don't monkey around with questionable parts!

Before bolting hose onto compressor, I added 2.5 oz PAG-150 (per manufacturer and dealer) to compressor input port, and 5.5oz balance of 8oz bottle PAG to receiver/dryer. I connected everything, drew a vacuum to about 29.5 inches (or better. it's a very serious 1hp vacuum pump..) It held for an hour, so I ran vacuum pump again to evacuate for 45 minutes.

As I added the first can of R134a, I started engine, AC on high/fan hi, and got about 80% of "first can" into system when low pressure side began climbing fairly quickly (1 to 2 minutes.. 30psi, 40, then 50, then 75.. Compressor was cycling off and on and was loud, then began to strain the engine.. the hi side went to about 400 psi!! ..so I shut it down out of fear of the can exploding in my hand! With everything turned off, pressure equalized (both sides) to about 80 psi! I disconnected the can for fear of it exploding!

I am stumped. No matter what I do, the pressure on both sides was wildly high. So, I bled off some of the pressure, got it so high side is about normal (300psi) but low is still at 60+ when running: but mind you, it's less than one 12oz can of charge! Not getting cold at all. Adding more R134 will surely only increase both sides again, right? This is a simple A/C system, no fancy controls other than 3 pressure switches, which all seem to have activated at one time or another, cutting power to the clutch intermittently. The condenser never got significantly hot either.. so not a shortage of airflow up front..

I suspect I either have too much oil in the wrong place, got liquid R134a into the system (I did not need to move the can much, as some people do.. as it is very hot here, a bit over 100F outside temp..)

I've never had a problem like this. Any suggestions will be appreciated. For now I have had to move onto other things, so I thought I'd post this and see if I am doing something stupid.

joe-ice
12-07-2012, 10:26 PM
Hi i dont do much with car ac only my own but sounds like you are overcharged or possibly non condensables in system. r134 at 300psi = condensing at 71degree c/160degree f .60psi=evaporating at 16 degree c/62degree f. should be more like 145psi high side. 22 to 30psi low side

padraic
12-07-2012, 10:41 PM
was your condenser fan running.. if condenser fan wasnt running the high pressure would shoot up before the condenser would get a chance to warm up...

b9box
13-07-2012, 12:54 AM
Yes, both the engine fan was running and evap blower/fan were running. Overcharge is not possible with less than 12oz of R134a on this vehicle. It take 3-4 cans of R134. It was fully evacuated, all new parts. Today I evacuated the system again, pulling a long 29+ inch vacuum for about 30 minutes. Started the recharge again. This time it seemed to be better; compressor was quieter, low pressure was building correctly, that is until low side got to about 30 psi, and high side reached about 300 psi, they pulsed a bit (hi side slightly dipping and low-side increasing, but then the clutch started slipping, belt popped off! (This is a 5.7 liter V8 engine, almost stalled and struggled to maintain 1200 rpm..) The pressure difference suggests to me now there might be a slight obstruction in O-tube.. Guess I will have to take it apart and start over. I am fairly convinced at this point I got a defective compressor. I am meticulous, don't mess around, and seems to me I did every detail above and beyond correct. None of this is making sense. Pressure should not be anywhere near 300 psi with perhaps 20% charge! The only other thing I can think of is, the new condenser and/or the compressor I purchased had something (moisture) inside? I did not flush those, other than a very long evacuation.. but both are new out of box and stayed sealed until I connected them in the system. As I said, in 30 years, never had this kind of problem, even when I was new at it! But R-12 did not need such high pressure either (here in AZ the 105-115F temps can push hi side to 300 psi and more..) seems like this unit cannot tolerate that. Today was about 105, last time it was hotter I think.

Instructor
13-07-2012, 04:34 AM
Not sure if you got it but I sent you a website to look at. are you pullinv a vacuum on the low and the high side. if not you could have no condensables traped on one side. if not that i would look for restrictions are you seeing any frost on the high side lines this could help locate the restriction. just a few ideas but no way should you be running 300psi on a normally charged system.

padraic
13-07-2012, 07:39 PM
looks like you have a blockage of some sort.. might be a blocked exspansion or faulty exspansion valve or a blocked drier... if the pump is hitting 300psi id say its ok.. but at 300psi is your hp switch not cutting system to prevent damage

The Viking
13-07-2012, 08:27 PM
OK,
I got virtually no experience of car A/C systems so what I'm saying is only general thoughts...

Both suction pressure and discharge pressures are high, therefore it is unlikely to be a blockage. If there was the suction pressure would be low, not high.

If the condensor was under sized then the head pressure would rise bringing the suction pressure with it. This could be caused by a physically too small condensor, non condensables (air/OFN) in the condensor or a lack of airflow across it.

If the expansion device let too much refrigerant through, not creating enough pressure differential, and the system is under charged, the system would get hotter and hotter and the pressures would rise. There would be no cooling as there would be no liquid to evaporate.

If there is any point where refrigerant could leak from the high side to the suction side, bypassing the evaporator, the pressures will rise. If the system hasn't got the full charge this would be hard to see.

If we had the pipe temperatures (Discharge/Liquid/Suction) whilst the system is running we could elaborate further and probably narrow it down further.

Happy hunting...

:cool:

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