F-Gas Checking

[jdunc2301]

Hey everyone!

I'll say it before someone says...ohh you need to be F-Gas etc
I am F-Gas registered and all that jazz I know the regs im just looking for fellow engineers real world opinions,

So leak checking VRV systems at a planned visit, not a breakdown. How are we all doing it, obviously in the quickest time but still doing it properly. Superheat and sub cool can be an arse to get....unless you use the controller, but for now we can presume we can't do that.

condenser on off TD
indoor unit on off TD etc??

spill!?

j

:D

[Luke.G]

as were going along cleaning filters / inspecting pumps or gravity condensate drains, looking for obvious signs of oil around flare nuts. Often use a electronic leak detecter around all known flare joints on the system.
a few of the systems that we have comissioned with daikin VRVIII have also got that leak check, where it will work out how much refrigerant it's got in the system, or even with mitsubishi electric you can get the laptop software and look at sensor readings / faults for a early diagnosis of a leak

Thanks,

[r.bartlett]

Hey everyone!

I'll say it before someone says...ohh you need to be F-Gas etc
I am F-Gas registered and all that jazz I know the regs im just looking for fellow engineers real world opinions,

So leak checking VRV systems at a planned visit, not a breakdown. How are we all doing it, obviously in the quickest time but still doing it properly. Superheat and sub cool can be an arse to get....unless you use the controller, but for now we can presume we can't do that.

condenser on off TD
indoor unit on off TD etc??

spill!?

j

:D

test on Full cooling with everything running for 1/2 hr then measure the on/off temp of the farthest indoor unit. if that is right the charge will be right (or thereabouts)

[Pingo]

Hi J

I have been thinking about this subject for some time.

The company I work for have no time allocated to carry out the F-Gas testing.

The general PM visit is about filter cleaning, unit cleaning, general operation cooling/heating, coil cleaning, drains and pumps etc

Each maintenance visit on the A/C is priced for the number of units on site but when the yearly visit comes around i get told off for spending to long on the visit.

With single one to one units it is not to bad with measuring on coil - off coil temperatures etc, checking the outdoor unit and the indoor unit with electronic refrigerant detector then keeping a record of the conditions.
I guess about 15-30minute extra per unit on the maintenance visit. (indirect testing)

VRV systems are more problematic, I have to arrange with the customer that i can place the unit into test cooling for a good hour of running, (Hopefully there is a good heat load to run at) I will place the outdoor unit into test cooling with gauges fitted to measure refrigerant pressures
With the outdoor running at full load all compressors operational, I measure on and off coil temps across all indoor units
I keep a log of the temperature readings and pressures.
and again I check outdoor and indoors with electronic refrigerant detector around Flares etc.
The main problem is the outdoor unit not loading due to the room conditions and of course the customer complaining of cold air drafts.
I would estimate about 2hours for a small VRV unit with about 6-8 indoors.

I'm sure other people are doing it different from me.

bob

[stufus]

With time restraints due to employers and client's concentrating on the bottom line the only way to go with VRF systems is via laptop.
But then most employers either won't shell out for it or the manufacturers won't sell it unless you are shifting their kit.
I did a bit of company hoping over the years and have managed to get my hand on checkers for all the major brands and the software updates are easily had if you know who to ask
Cheers
Stu

[jdunc2301]

So are most VRF's compatible for laptops now, to be honest i've never looked for the connections as we have never looked into it... the new company are into it tho! How is the connection made, USB? Ethernet....and what information can i obtain via laptop..

Cheers

[stufus]

All manufactures have their own converter which turns the control logic into readable data.
All data is readable in real time press/temps/inv speeds/voltages etc etc.
If the crowd you are going to work for are a registered agent for a manufacturer tell them to get the software package.
Most simply connect to the control cable via croc clips
Cheers
Stu

[chilliwilly]

Its just another peice of paper that gets signed off, after all its not as dangerous as gas or electric. It amazes me that there are more losses from electricity due to electricutions and fires and its not even the law to have an installation periodicly tested.

[install monkey]

vrv3's have a leak check function - you initiate it on installation then it compares it to its previous check function.
mitsi power inverters have it too- containment check
why struggle??

[install monkey]

our gaff now want f gas sheets for everything- even under 3kg!!!- so they can plot a lil graph- great but i keep the f gas sheets in the site log book so any auditor who visits site can see, also if any repairs are carried out the eng/chimp can fill out the sheet- had a prick out the office asking for me f gas sheet for a repair i did on a daikin rzq100- told him to get his arse out the office and go to site!

[Grizzly]

Hi IM.
Does the office idiot not read how Fgas operates?
You are correct of course it's a site based log and not another tick sheet.

Either of which earn very little income but satisfy a lot of desk donkeys need for paperwork.

Grizzly

[install monkey]

grizzly- our office has bog roll with arrows on so they know which way to wipe!!- this has something to do with f gas elite-another sticker for me van- got more stickers on it now than the bloody ice cream van!!!
when ive done a job,i fill out a worksheet and then have to send an e mail "to update the helpdesk"-all they do is chat about kittens and watch the tracking software!!

[chilliwilly]

I sounds like you and me both work at the same place. But I think the doors have a sign saying open to enter and exit and the toilet attendant wipes for them as they can't do it themselves.

They don't even have an F gas qualification or a refcom cert and they expect me to use mine to carryout refrigeration repairs...Ha!

[Makeit go Right]

Wow. That's all I can say.