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ala&Alan
15-04-2012, 04:33 PM
hi, i am considering taking an entry qualification

hi, i am considering taking an entry qualification in refrigeration and air conditioning this coming September . If I am to explain my background then you will be able to inform me.

I have not been in school or college for 7 years, I worked in retail at the check outs since I left school. I suffer from minor memory problems. I am 25 yrs old and didnít come out of school with the best GCSEs and have a Intermediate GNVQ in building. I am worried that the 6127 City and guilds refrigeration and air conditioning or equivalent entry qualification might a bit challenging for me.

I have found a book at my local library even though it is a bit advanced for what I will be studying I have learnt 1 or 2 things that I find interesting. However my main concern is that this course will be a bit too challenging for me, is there a book that I can get that will give me a good idea at what I will be studying and at level 2 do I need to memorise Refrigerant numbers replacing older ones and at what detail? Would I need to learn Refrigerants ODP, GWP, Saturation temp, Condition temp. What about lubricants and their compatibility with refrigerants?

The Viking
15-04-2012, 09:36 PM
Hi and welcome to the forum.

Training?
All training is good for the mind and should as such be encouraged, however...

What are your goals? What do you want to achieve by doing this course?
To be brutally frank about the "entry-level" courses offered by various establishments, they don't actually count for much out here in the real world, at least not if your goal is employment.

Unfortunately for you, in order to be "respected" on the job market of any trade, hands on experience and training is required. In our trade of refrigeration and air-conditioning engineers that nowadays means a minimum of 2 years and preferable 3 years with an supporting and understanding employer who send you to day release college.
Providing you find the right employer and the right engineer to guide you, you will have no problem of becoming an engineer as long as that is what your heart and mind is set at.

In today's job market finding a company willing to take on "apprentices" is not an easy task but with a lot of research and legwork you might be able to find one out there. However, be prepared for job offers with salaries close to the minimum legal requirement but as long as you are able to stick with it for the first 3 years or so there is light at the end of the tunnel...


Happy hunting,

:cool:

.

ala&Alan
15-04-2012, 10:36 PM
The Viking
Thanks you for your response, I am planning on taking an entry level qualification level 2 technical certificate most likely the 6127, then try to find an employer so I can embark on my NVQ level 2. In most cases you can carry over the credits from the 6127 in to 1st year of the NVQ level 2
On a NVQ Level 2 Am I required to memorise the ODP, GWP, Condition temp & sat temp of Refrigerant numbers?
As this worries as learning rimms of numbers are some of the things that i cannot do.

I am just trying to get a rough idea of what type of stuff and what depth i will be learning at.

The Viking
15-04-2012, 10:47 PM
Yes, to a certain degree there are numbers, names, dates and legislation to learn.

BUT

With the right employer this is something that would be forced in to you in daily doses for 2 years,

:cool:

.

monkey spanners
15-04-2012, 11:03 PM
If you have dyslexia or similar then the training should take that into account, might be worth having a word with the college or trainers about your particular situation.

Out on site being able to remember gwp or odp will not help you fix things, there are things you will need to know, but mostly its how thing work, the principals etc. You can always look facts and figures up if there are calculations you need to make.

cool runings
16-04-2012, 12:32 AM
I am planning on taking an entry level qualification level 2 technical certificate most likely the 6127, then try to find an employer so I can embark on my NVQ level 2. In most cases you can carry over the credits from the 6127 in to 1st year of the NVQ level 2
On a NVQ Level 2 Am I required to memorise the ODP, GWP, Condition temp & sat temp of Refrigerant numbers?
As this worries as learning rimms of numbers are some of the things that i cannot do.

I am just trying to get a rough idea of what type of stuff and what depth i will be learning at.

Where are you going to do the training?
The 6127 has now been replaced with the 6187 so whoever is selling you the
course is not offering you the most recent one.

The 6127 is pure theory and you will be expected to know quite a lot of the science
behind refigeration and there are also some fairly complex maths.

If you have learning difficulties you should be able to get assistance
but if it is a memory thing you will have to just put the hours in place
and learn ways of remembering the required information.

If you want some personal unbiased advice contact me and I will talk you
through some of your options.

All the best

cool runnings

.

cool runings
16-04-2012, 12:42 AM
I am planning on taking an entry level qualification level 2 technical certificate most likely the 6127, then try to find an employer so I can embark on my NVQ level 2. In most cases you can carry over the credits from the 6127 in to 1st year of the NVQ level 2
On a NVQ Level 2 Am I required to memorise the ODP, GWP, Condition temp & sat temp of Refrigerant numbers?
As this worries as learning rimms of numbers are some of the things that i cannot do.

I am just trying to get a rough idea of what type of stuff and what depth i will be learning at.

The 6127 is the theory towards the full NVQ 6087 you can't do the NVQ until you have the theory 6127.
It is possible to do both at the same time but the theory exams have to be complete before the portfolio
can be submitted for the full NVQ.
There is no carrying over any credits the NVQ is work based portfolio building and can only be completed
by sombody actualy employed in trade.

But the 6127 - 6087 have been replaced by the new 6187 NVQ.

You need to research what qualifications the company are offering you before you pay any money.

cool runnings

.

Magoo
16-04-2012, 02:32 AM
Hi Ala&alan.
welcome to the forum and good on you for having a go. Haremai from NZ.

ala&Alan
16-04-2012, 09:23 AM
Where are you going to do the training?
The 6127 has now been replaced with the 6187 so whoever is selling you the
course is not offering you the most recent one.

The 6127 is pure theory and you will be expected to know quite a lot of the science
behind refigeration and there are also some fairly complex maths.

If you have learning difficulties you should be able to get assistance
but if it is a memory thing you will have to just put the hours in place
and learn ways of remembering the required information.

If you want some personal unbiased advice contact me and I will talk you
through some of your options.

All the best

cool runnings


i Spoke to my local college which I will be undertaking the training at and yes you are correct the 6127 is going to be replaced however this coming September will be the last time it will be allowed to run.

My local college has 3 options for newbies in this field like me for this coming September, it is the following; 6127 (soon to be on the scrapheap), 6187 (allowing newbies to do the first year only) or a totally new qualification which city and guilds would like to introduce.
You said complicated maths, are talking along the lines of ohms law?






Yes, to a certain degree there are numbers, names, dates and legislation to learn.

BUT

With the right employer this is something that would be forced in to you in daily doses for 2 years,

:cool:

.

is it just the year of the legislation or exact date. I hate numbers and remembering numbers isn't my best quality

ala&Alan
16-04-2012, 09:25 AM
i was told not much maths will be involved in the course other then ohms law?

The Viking
16-04-2012, 07:12 PM
Whereabouts in the country are you based?

:cool:

.

ala&Alan
17-04-2012, 08:06 AM
Whereabouts in the country are you based?

:cool:

.

i am based in Kent.

shefty
17-04-2012, 02:52 PM
You really want to work hard at getting employed in the industry before you begin training. Theres alot to learn and if you have an understanding of the basics before you begin it would be a huge advantage. Im just coming toward the end of my first year myself.
The course has changed. It is no longer the NVQ but is a QCF. Ohms law wasnt involved in the NVQ but now you gain your test and inspect cirtificate with the qualification so you will cover it. I wouldnt pack your brain with saturation temps, ODP's, and GWP's as in the first year we havnt covered them. The theory is the tricky part which really does test your memory. Its alot of formula's! Temperature conversion, pressure conversion, latent and sensible heat formula's etc etc etc.
It may sound difficult but with a good group of lads in a class you will all end up pushing each other along.
Best of luck with it all.

ala&Alan
17-04-2012, 07:30 PM
You really want to work hard at getting employed in the industry before you begin training. Theres alot to learn and if you have an understanding of the basics before you begin it would be a huge advantage. Im just coming toward the end of my first year myself.
The course has changed. It is no longer the NVQ but is a QCF. Ohms law wasnt involved in the NVQ but now you gain your test and inspect cirtificate with the qualification so you will cover it. I wouldnt pack your brain with saturation temps, ODP's, and GWP's as in the first year we havnt covered them. The theory is the tricky part which really does test your memory. Its alot of formula's! Temperature conversion, pressure conversion, latent and sensible heat formula's etc etc etc.
It may sound difficult but with a good group of lads in a class you will all end up pushing each other along.
Best of luck with it all.

I was told that alot of these formulas are transposing formulas. Would you be able to name a few of these formulas? i already looked up the gas laws e.g Daltons partial gas laws, boyles law and charles law.

Did you cover lubricants and which lubricants are compatible of which?

ala&Alan
17-04-2012, 07:32 PM
Did you cover lubricants and which lubricants are compatible with, which refrigerants?

ala&Alan
18-04-2012, 05:39 PM
The theory is the tricky part which really does test your memory. Its alot of formula's! Temperature conversion, pressure conversion, latent and sensible heat formula's etc etc etc.


I have spoken to a few training institutions including my local college, which i plan to attend this coming September, the reason why i have spoken to few tutors from different institutions and including coming to this forum is so i can get an all-round perspective of the subject.

Would i be correct in saying there is no formula for sensible heat and latent?
most of the calculations are done by the manufacturers and are depicted on graphs for you?
Its more about graphs rather than formulas?

Oh also i have been recommended a book to read i was wondering if you people think it is a good representation of what i will be learning at level 2? (the link is below)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0750685190/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

shefty
21-04-2012, 07:32 AM
Yes you will do a work book on lubricants. Its not a huge part of the course but some questions will be in the exam. The sensible heat and latent heat formula's are to calculate how much work is required in joules to change temperature (sensible) or state (latent). Sensible formula is mass x temperature difference x specific heat capacity. Latent heat formula is mass x latent heat capacity. I dont have alot of time right now but if you message me your email address when i get a chance I could go through my work books and sent you loads of info and formulas to give you a head start

cool runings
21-04-2012, 02:31 PM
.

The book is acceptable and reasonable in price.

The 6127 technical certificate is a very good qualification.

Now that you know of the alternatives you can choose the course that would suit you the most.

All refrigeration qualifications at this level will include maths and formula's.

You will do electrics like Ohms law and such but you will also be expected to learn
about Pressure enthalpy (Ph) charts and you will be expected to learn how to callculate
system performance and flow rates from these.

You will also be expected to learn about heat loss and heat transfer into and out of a room
so you will be able to size and design (at basic levels) systems.

Do the course.

As for the maths the tutors are trained to help people and they will show you ways that
help you learn the formula's and they should help you with any issues you have.

All the best

cool runnings

.