considered taking your skills to NZ?

[Tammy - move2nz]

Hi,

I was wondering how many of you ever considered taking your much needed skill over to Aotearoa - New Zealand

NZ has a skills shortage in many areas and Refrigeration engineering being one of them

[frank]

Yes I've thought about it but don't qualify for enough points on your strict entry conditions - must be toooooo olddddd :D
http://www.workpermit.com/new_zealand/employee.htm

[Peter_1]

First, it's a pitty they don't pay that much for the so needed skills, that you have to prove all over again that you know your job just for that paper.

Even if you have 20 years experience in heavy industrial refrigeration but not the right papers, they won't let you in. So my question: do they need the peoples with the right papers or the right skills?
Is the paper a prove that you know your job?

Second, attracting the so needed skilled workers only with the so beautifull nature is not the right way if you ask me. They have to take care of their own education.

But those who know me better and read my old posts know why I'm asking this and what my opinion is in this matter.

[frank]

I've just taken the points test for immigration into the Uk and FAILED :eek:

I only scored 55 points with a minimum required of 65. Better start packing my bags before the Points Police come calling :D

[rbartlett]

They say the immigration of South African's to NZ has increased the IQ of both countries though reduced the EQ of both.

This makes no sense to me..

firstly who is 'they' -we don't want to be unsubstantiated do we?

then it appears S.A'ers going to NZ has increased the IQ of NZ and S.A ?

So the so called 'educated' leaving a country has the effect of raising the IQ of those left?? doesn't say much for those 'educated' who left then??

further clarification req'd


I only have a South African Industrial Refrigeration Mechanics Certificate

you silly monkey -you have that nice new hitachi one on your bedroom wall remember !!

cheers

richard

[rbartlett]

Hi,

I was wondering how many of you ever considered taking your much needed skill over to Aotearoa - New Zealand

NZ has a skills shortage in many areas and Refrigeration engineering being one of them




there is only ever a shortage of labour in jobs in which the workers are under appreciated.

learn that lesson and the skill shortage will disappear....

cheers

Richard

[Peter_1]

Richard ,what happened to your signature?

[tonto]

Have to agree with Richard on his point, the same story here in australia, they have a skills shortage in many areas with refrigeration techs being one of them and it's usually because workers are under payed for their skills, not appreciated, or treated poorly. You take a look through the papers and the companies that are always looking are usually the ones that under pay their workers or treat their workers poorly. The better companies usually have people knock on their doors for jobs.........

[tonto]

the ongoing saga between marc and richard continues!!!!

[rbartlett]

you silly monkey -you have that nice new Hitachi one on your bedroom wall remember !!




To be brutally honest, no, I don't remember


Brutality is an ugly emotion and coming from you who as a complete pacifist and a bit of a 'tree hugger' I'm a tad disappointed :-(

However not remembering that you have your Hitachi certificate on your kitchen wall is more worrying as you even gone to the point of having one of those picture lights illuminating it.

Whilst I would not allow anything in my house from Ilea I must admit it looks okay (although you could have buried the cable...)

http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15579&catalogId=10103&storeId=7&productId=10801&langId=-20&parentCats=15579*15748*16083


cheers

richard

[MANIS]

NZ ,,,,, it was bad dream for me,,,,,,
Talk about Australia , Canada etc but don’t talk about NZ
Cos there are plenty of reason’s
I spend 2 years on the same subject since 2002-2004 and spend a lot of money
In these 2 years the NZ unbalance immigration policy changed thrice,resulting they ask for a job offer latter – the week I got a job offer latter ( July 2004 ) rules changed again in mid night without any intimation ?? and they disqualify my application and ask to submit my case with new form again, and returned my immigration fees ???? I was totally help less ,,,, there was non of my mistake every thing was as per requirement’s and instruction ???? I was really very disappointed .
Further more I visited to NZ in January 2005 and spend 18 days in Auckland, Hamilton , south islands .. upon seeing the situation for house rents/prizes , and salary structure and standard I really thanks God , we are in much better shape here in every aspect , with good saving
Sorry to say even Australia is much better place I found in terms of A/C – Ref field…….(only its not that beautiful state )

[tonto]

Dude, ongoing is by definition continuous.

Dude, point out the obvious!!

[zerodegreec]

If you are looking for skilled mechanics that are well trained and seasoned then your talking about attracting them from places that have good trade schools, solid economies and stable jobs. Example would be here in Canada. Now for a place like NZ to get people like myself to pull up roots and jump the pond you need a mighty big carrot. Pay for the move, help with the immigration paperwork, support housing until a home can be bought. Ect. What REALLY is the draw to pull out of a place that has LOTS of work, great training access and diversity? To be honest the majority of the mechanics you will attract will be the ones nobody around here will hire, the ones the don't plan on staying in any one place for any length of time or the ones trying to get away from problems.

My family may look into a place like NZ or OZ one day, perdy country's but the expense is very very large. So unless the proverbial "Cheese" smells good down at that other end of the maze, your trap will likely be empty or even full of things you were not looking to catch in the first place.

[Peter_1]

Well, ZerodegreeC, perhaps you can answer then this one from me http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3546&goto=newpost

[zerodegreec]

Okay You got my wife and I thinking about the possibility of the jump over the pond. My Question is:

How much could a mechanic like myself make?
8years of experiance mostly Supermarket service with experience in Rooftop and residential.

What is the cost of living?

Health care? Insurance or government like Canada?

We would like to get away from the large populations <800,000.

eagerly salivating on the idea of the move.

[eve walt]

Mark from SA you have a high opinion of yourself with your "mechanics certificate" I have worked in NZ and the refrigeration standard is excellent like their rugby.I have also had SA refrig engineers work for me you should try NZ for a while,but I dont think they would let you in?standards are international ,educate DONT speculate?

[Dan]

The few Zealander ex-pats I have met seem pretty much on the ball. Oh...

Ex pats. That probably says it, doesn't it?

[rbartlett]

The few Zealander ex-pats I have met seem pretty much on the ball. Oh...

Ex pats. That probably says it, doesn't it?

Yes and to a certain point I can see why they would live in Fl. I loved it there (although I would be on the other side of the H.F bridge to tampa...)

cheers

richard

[chillin out]

Just a pity their technical skills are marginally better than the Brits
Why do you always say 'brits' ?

There is 4 differant countries in britain, all are very differant from each other.

Stop Classing us all the same.

In any case, most of the greatest inventions and engineering feats stem from GREAT Britain.

Chillin:) :)

[Lazarus]

As much as it galls me to say this.... i agree Marc

But what do i know im an expat!

[Reg]

We did, for 5 years, great experience, but house prices and cost of living have risen since Sept 11. Common question from Kiwi tradesmen is why? they are all leaving to work in the UK or OZ!
Have contacts if anyone interested.
A lot of companies fed up with paying for "poms" to go over and then changing their minds or failing to pass the immegration requirements. They are getting quite choosey down under!!

[phil68]

This is sort of on the same thread, but someone told me recently that fridgies in the 'States are paid higher than us here in the U.K., even though the cost of living is lower. Can any of our cousins across the pond confirm this?

[rbartlett]

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=89184

cheers

richard

[phil68]

Thanks for that Richard. From what I can make out from the link the average is $35k to $55k basic which equates to about £21k to £32k at current exchange rates. Not bad considering the cost of living is cheaper there. Packing my bags now:-)

[rbartlett]

Thanks for that Richard. From what I can make out from the link the average is $35k to $55k basic which equates to about £21k to £32k at current exchange rates. Not bad considering the cost of living is cheaper there. Packing my bags now:-)


America is one big place. sure there are high wages in parts but very poor wages elsewhere. -IE Florida is known for it's low living standards. Other places like philly will pay a lot more but expect to pay more. so basically it's the same **** different bucket everywhere all round the world..

having said that if you don't mind that the US of A has a lot going for it...

it is however quite hard to get a green card if you happen to be of the wrong racial background...usually it takes a willing employer there and 2-5 years

still try for N.O as there is a shed load of work reclaiming refrigerant and once building starts a lot of residential installs

cheers

richard

[DALO]

This is a very interesting thread/debate you have started here and as a migrant of Australia i think i should warn anybody before they take the plunge. As a United Kingdom refrigeration mechanic i went for a short holiday to Oz 5 years ago and was sponsored by a local company to work as a refrigeration mechanic. They had to provide evidence that they couldnt employ a local to justify bringing me into the country. It was pretty easy as mechanic(engineers) are on their hotlist. So after immigration checked my apprenticeship papers, college results and references to say id been in the trade for 10 years and taking $2000aus out of my pocket i was in.

But conveniently nobody informed me that although my qualifications were good enough to get in the country they werent good enough for the department of Fair Trading to issue myself with a license. This seemed bizarre. I thought ok genuine mistake. But it wasnt and i was in for a major shock.
To get the full license i had to enrol on two TAFE courses, CFC refrigerants and Restricted Electrical work.

So in fact your a fridgy who is not allowed to handle gases or disconnect and reconnect motors. In other words your unemployable. Their excuse was and still is that Australia works to the highest standards in the world. Now before you all roll around on the floor laughing and rupturing your rib cages as i did. This becomes a major problem for anyone becasue its very difficult to get on a TAFE (College) course unless your an Aussie apprentice.

Add to that some of the course modules the government ask you to complete are not available anywhere and your in trouble.

It took me over a year to get on the courses and a year to complete with the humiliation of studying in a class with people who had never used a fluke meter before and learning about ohms law (O level physics) The final test was connecting a flex cord to a 3 pin plug and testing a 240 live supply.
Add to that financial expenses which you pay for and its infuriating.

The final insult is when the Federal and State governments decide to change the licensing laws and revoke your license leaving only Aussies with the Australian papers eligible to work.

So Marc no offence but your HND or certificate 5 wouldnt be worth anything here and youd be back to school like many other highly skilled engineers from all over the world.

Cant comment on New Zealand but i imagine their very similar, in my experience the more backwards the country the more xenophobic they are.

Theres a moral to this story but i cant think what.

[DALO]

Marc in response to your quote you were being begged to move to the Anzac countries i find this hilarious. Ok theres thousands of 10 quid Pomes out here who settled when every man and his dog could get in. Half of Czechozvakia are here driving taxi cabs. Theyd except anyone. Presently things have changed. No doubt your certificates would get you in the country depending on age, but they wouldnt be recognised. Double dutch isnt it. You would therefore get plenty of job offers but it would be at a lower rate than the locals(licensed) and you would be back at night school. I think they call it cheap labour. And theres nothing you can do because thats the law. A man of your calibre would doubtless find this an insult and be on the first plane home.

Also theres no skill shortage whatsoever. The phrase is shortage of cheap labour. Which is the vacancy they wanted you to fill.
The problem with places like Australia is that every man and his dog works for themselves and doubles their pay, so the market is saturated and the big companies are short because nobody wants to work for a lousy 50k per year when they can make 100k self employed. Thats why they constantly advertise for migrants and pay for your relocation, (the costs come out of your first years salary)


Not to sure about your diploma. Is it a university qualification? Or just a tradesmens certificate?? I do find it amusing youve been led to believe you were trained by the best. Every country claims the same thing.
Lets not get carried away this is only refrigeration and not medical science and none of us went to Oxford or Cambridge did we??

[slingblade]

Teach me Obi Wan.

[phil68]

Regards the USA I just like the idea of burbling around in a V8 Chevy van in all-year round sun & getting paid into the bargain:D

[DALO]

Marcy thanks for your reply and once again thanks for reminding us all of how you can walk on water.
I think your missing the point im making here.
Im not doubting your skills or anyone else on this website im stating a fact that all people who move countries should consider. No matter how competent or intelligent you are in your field this is of no use unless you can get Recognition of Prior learning from the education system in that particular country.

Now let me explain. To operate in Australia you must have a license from the state or federal government.
To obtain a license you must have a craft certificate(tradesmens rights/apprenticeship papers) from another country and then you must enrol on a CFC course(6 months) restricted Electrical (1 year) before the government will issue you with a license. There are no exceptions to the rule, its government legislation. Its almost impossible to work without a license now because of work cover and insurance issues. So how would a man of your experience feel going back to school and being treated lesser than a fledgling tradesman who did a local apprenticeship??? I dont agree with this system i hate it but when in Rome.

So as i live here and you dont and i know how the system works having been through it i feel im more of an authority to speak on it than you. Or are you John Howard in disguise????
Please answer 'this question' before you reply and tell me again in greater detail about your academic success.

Moving on to the 2nd part of this debate if you claim to have received the best training in the world im not going to either doubt you or agree with you. I wasnt sat next to you in class was i?
But listen to this all the Aussie tradesmen i speak to believe that Australia has the highest level of skilled workers in the world. They also claim like you do that their in great demand overseas due to the reputation theyve earnt. Funny isnt it.
Now my point is this, if you are a Guru as you say then is it because your South African or is it because you have an above average IQ level. Surely its down to the individuals discretion as to how far they themselves want to progress in the industry and not just the university they studied at.

Im still not sure if you have any intention of answering my question or your more intent on advertising yourself during this thread.

Last but not least i know of no South Africans working anywhere in Sydney let alone managers. I believe they settle in Perth WA which is a very desolate state.

[Abe]

Last but not least i know of no South Africans working anywhere in Sydney let alone managers. I believe they settle in Perth WA which is a very desolate state.


They live in Perth because they have made it their " lager"
and they can pretend they are still in their South Africa

[chillin out]

Last but not least i know of no South Africans working anywhere in Sydney let alone managers. I believe they settle in Perth WA which is a very desolate state.
Why is this?

Is it because South Africans are thought of to be lower grade person.????:confused: :(


Chillin

[Abe]

Now let me explain. To operate in Australia you must have a license from the state or federal government.
To obtain a license you must have a craft certificate(tradesmens rights/apprenticeship papers) from another country and then you must enrol on a CFC course(6 months) restricted Electrical (1 year) before the government will issue you with a license. There are no exceptions to the rule, its government legislation. Its almost impossible to work without a license now because of work cover and insurance issues. So how would a man of your experience feel going back to school and being treated lesser than a fledgling tradesman who did a local apprenticeship??? I dont agree with this system i hate it but when in Rome.





And what is wrong with that???

Every country is different and has its own ways of doing things, the voltages might be different for a start, and the materials, etc.

It is only fair no matter how experienced one is, to prove to the "Roman" that he has a grasp of local practice.

Supposedly you get an arrival from Romania, whos paper qualification dont amount to a trivial local certificate. In that case a local certification will soon ascertain his credibility and bring him to the required standard.

You cannot take Marc's view that All South African Fridge Blokes are great.

Marc was born smart, He has a gift.......He is at the top of a pile on the pyramid when it comes to solving, analysing scientific stuff.

On the other hand writing a legal representation, he might be a duff as a dodo.......who knows??

The rest of us have varying strengths and abilities, whether youre English, Ozzy, Kiwi, Canadian, Middle Eastern....... It doesnt matter

I have come across brilliant engineers from all parts of the world.

Of course each will say they are the best. Also dependant on the resources that were available at the time in that country.

During periods of growth, reputable companies will invest in training, like LG have just done, they have opened a new training facilty in Slough

Who benefits?? English techs will............

In countries where such facilities dont exist, the engineers will struggle.

By good fortune, South Africans benefitted from good training in the past. Im not sure what the position is at moment.

To sum it up..............We are all still big grown up kids in the playground............" My dads got a better car then yours............................:) :)

[rbartlett]

2) There are mines around Perth and South Africa has the best mining technology in the world, much of which contributed to the channel tunnel.

3) Since for reasons like the above two there was a mass exodus to Perth a trend was set which is why these days, as I understand, most of the lawyers and judges in Perth are South African.


Indian !!!

cheers

richard

[rbartlett]

Since for reasons like the above two there was a mass exodus to Perth a trend was set which is why these days, as I understand, most of the lawyers and judges in Perth are South African.

Since you 'understand' this please feel free to substantiate this or it's rendered mere here say and as such irrelevant and inadmissible to the whole 'South Africa is great' tosh...

also doubt that the "New South Africa" is producing the same quality as before. However, even though I can't remember whether I have met 1, 2 or 3 South African techs in the UK I have heard of many working for the likes of Trane, Carrier and York who are apparently their best tech's.

I know a long term Carrier guy who retired last year. I mentioned that I worked with South Africans and he said

"effin good luck to you, they are useless. They all think they know it all ,you can't tell them anything and they (the whites) are are laziest bunch of c..ts I've ever met."

My ex partner went to NZ with the view of emigrating. He had several interviews and he was told by the NZ employers that "you can't trust the S.A's and no one wants to employ them as they will turn you over as quick as they can"

Both these can be substantiated with names and I know Marc knows my ex partner if he wishes to speak to him about it...



cheers

richard

[Peter_1]

...1) The climate is apparently similar to Durban, the world map below shows Durban and Perth to also be on the same latitude, if you already know where these cities are....

I haven't looled where these cities are but being on the same latitude doesn't say anything about the same climate.
There are hundreds of other factors determining the climate and the same latitude is one of it.

[DALO]

First i would agree with Aiyub regarding the fact theres idiots all over the world and there are also very smart people. Stereotyping the typical South African as the best is ludricous.
Aiyub my point with Australia is this, taking a trade test or having your existing qualifications is not good enough to get your license, you still have to go on their college courses. Fair enough, but.....many people cant get on the courses so dont have the chance to study or prove themselves. I had similar problems, (i offered to complete the full 3 year apprenticeship course to end all arguements), where a teacher said he wouldnt let me study as he didnt want me taking the place of an Australian. Now thats bordering on apartheid.
In the end my company threatened to take this issue to a state minister and the newspapers and there was a change of heart. It took me 4 years to get equal rights in the end.
The only reason i started this thread is to warn other tradesmen who move that they could be in for a rough time and should consider how long they are prepared to go over old ground before they get recognition.

As for Marc again you astonish me with your refusal to answer direct questions. When you socialise on a weekend do you actually engage in any relevant conversation or do you just sit down keep quiet and hand out your CV to everyone???

Ive spoken to a few ozzies in the last couple of days regarding Boks and theyve told me the same answer.
Loud obnoxious and full of themselves. One guys theory is that due to treating other races as inferior in their own country they practice this ideology all over the world. Thus they are as popular as a kick in the b****ks
and are unemployable.
Although i doubt this is true of all Boks you do seem to fit this description very well.
Have you met this guy??

[Abe]

Aiyub my point with Australia is this, taking a trade test or having your existing qualifications is not good enough to get your license, you still have to go on their college courses. Fair enough, but.....many people cant get on the courses so dont have the chance to study or prove themselves. I had similar problems, (i offered to complete the full 3 year apprenticeship course to end all arguements), where a teacher said he wouldnt let me study as he didnt want me taking the place of an Australian. Now thats bordering on apartheid.
In the end my company threatened to take this issue to a state minister and the newspapers and there was a change of heart. It took me 4 years to get equal rights in the end.
The only reason i started this thread is to warn other tradesmen who move that they could be in for a rough time and should consider how long they are prepared to go over old ground before they get recognition.


I was not aware that Australia had such "draconian" laws regarding issuing licenses to tradesman.

To me this amounts to a " closed shop" and it often turns out that members who sit on these boards are usually drawn from within the refrigeration fraternity, hence the in built bias gets a firm foothold at the onset.

This is sad, as a fairer system would issue licenses at the onset based upon the level of education and training one has within their own countries, based on merit and credibility of that institution.

This is what happens in Canada. You submit all your qualifications to them, they assess your worth, what further requirements you need, and issue you with a Canadian licence.

So good on you mate, for taking the authorities to task and getting there in the end.

And, yes, it is a valid warning to all fridge guys planning on going over to Oz, do your homework before you leave, you dont want to end up as a second rate spanner boy.


Ive spoken to a few ozzies in the last couple of days regarding Boks and theyve told me the same answer.
Loud obnoxious and full of themselves. One guys theory is that due to treating other races as inferior in their own country they practice this ideology all over the world. Thus they are as popular as a kick in the b****ks
and are unemployable.



What did the Fox say about the grapes.................????
Recall that one???

Until around Independence in South Africa , that was around 15 years ago now??? Indians were not allowed to become :

Fridge Engineers
Carpenters
Electricians
Plumbers
ok, Ill cut it short............Any trade which was classed as Tradesman

You had to be white , to get a job with a skill
So , you couldnt go to College
You couldnt get an apprenticeship

You had only one area you could work in, yes........Work in your fathers shop.

Yes, you became a tradesman. But not a " tradesman" !!! :D :D

But theres more.......

Your father couldnt open a shop just anywhere. It had to be in a special designated zone, away from the City Centre..........usually on the fringes of a black township.

And this is where the Indians drew custom from. From the black consumers.

This is my point..............To fill the vacancies for apprenticeships, you had to select from only White Candidates

So you had brilliant guys like our walking on water Marc.........and probably duffs as well who got in only by virtue of their skin tone

Does that make South Africans such great sought after engineers???

[rbartlett]

In other words "Marc, Shut-up, you sound like the guy in the TV program".

This is a good example of poor British logic. The idea is that because a TV program makes fun of Indians who often point out where the magnitude of one thing or another is greater in India than in the UK that everyone who does so is offering incorrect information. This might be over matters of poverty, population numbers, telesales and tele-help stations or software technicians.

Calling out such a label (Indian) would only work as a refutation if every such statement regarding magnitude variance were true. For instance "Shut-up, you sound like Hitler" would only constitute a successful refutation if everything Hitler thought was false. Of course, Hitler thought that London was the capital of England, which is true, which of course then invalidates the statement as a form of refutation.

It's like us during my military service, we used to call the Brits Beacon which rhymed with the beginning of nearly every sentence that came out of their mouths "Back in the UK we used to..." People who have lived in only one country all their lives have no competing experiences from which to draw comparisons and so are quite sensitive to those that do, it stands out.

you obviously misunderstand the character Mr Indian!

it has nothing to do with the babble you write above. it is about a man who comes from a country (India) but lives in another country (UK) but because of his over wrought nostalgia for the old country it blinds him where he over exaggerates the mother country to the point where he claims all manner of things for his homeland which bear no relation to the facts

this is a perfect fit for you and your -adopted- homeland of south Africa.

even the s.a's who know you don't recognise the country they left before at the same time or even later than you...


stick to facts and we can talk..

meander around in the vain attempt to 'win' is pointless

cheers

richard

[rbartlett]

It's similar to me understanding that there are many South African dentists in the UK by statements like "Damn, most of our dentists are bloody South African". A South African dentist once told me that of the 16000 registered dentists in the UK nearly 5000 were South African. Clearly, not all are South African, definitely not most.


what is the point of this complete and utter nonsense ?


But if most are geographically concentrated then it can seem that most are South African. This, however, is irrelevant, with regards to any "South Africa is Great" argument (tosh). Richard, once again, you are mistaken, you are wrong in assuming the information is intended to support any "South Africa is Great" argument, it is only mentioned in support of what Dalo says.

refresh me as to where exactly you support dalo's argument?



Perhaps you should be asking Dalo to provide evidence to support his claim that most South African's move to Perth.

you yourself once told me that the biggest expat comunity in perth was south africans. however uopn further examination it turns out this is not true -it's brits!!

Anyway, I must try finish these software modifications, but I'll come back to this. There are so many juicy errors of reasoning by you and Dalo - I just can't turn away from the fun :)

cheap shots show a weakness in your argument ..i await your return ;-))

cheers

richard

[rbartlett]

Richard, there are two things you fail to do.

[QUOTE]Firstly, you fail to refute my claims by crying "India", this failure is clearly explained in my post which you quoted above. I honestly doubt I need to spell it out any clearer. I think you are deliberately pretending to misunderstand.

i told you it has nothing to do with 'shut up' which you believe it does. therefore you are wrong in your assumption that you fully understand the Mr India character


I'd like to hear details. As the only conversations regarding SA with other SA's that I remember you partaking were those where the SA's were explaining why it is they were all so successful in the UK.

you have never been privy to all my conversations with south africans and it is preposterously selfcentric to think that.



Anyway, let me get back to the previous posts :)

I'm all eyes


cheers

richard

[rbartlett]

Richard, I know your ex partner. He's a great person but not a f*u*ck is he sufficiently knowing of the industry and the different academic levels of training available to be obtained to apportion any degree of accuracy to the NZ's statements. And quite frankly, nor are you. Neither of you know sufficient of the technical attributes of the profession to make judgment, only enough to hold resentment toward something you don't understand.


i commented upon what had been told to me i think you need to read the posts before replying. to imply that i am somehow resentful towards anyone is again ridiculous and totally erroneous without foundation unless you can prove this then it must be considered what it is -false....

you have never spoken directly to a NZ employer but he has therefore you are the one insufficiently educated in this issue not him..........

as an aside he has absolutely no axe to grind regarding south African techs either way...but again he wasn't commenting upon them merely repeating what he had been told in interviews..re-read the post exactly as written.

also i believe he quite likes you too :)


cheers

richard

[rbartlett]

as I understand, most of the lawyers and judges in Perth are South African.

am i correct in thinking the foundation of this above 'understanding' based solely on this lift from a rugby forum dated six years ago?

The vast majority of South Africans here in Perth (and there are lots of
them believe me) are professionals, in fact most of the *******s seem to be lawyers.



cheers

richard

[Abe]

[QUOTE=Marc O'Brien]


Abe, when I started my apprenticeship in 1985 our two top industrial tech's were Indian. KG and Ish. KG's sirname was Gobin, I forget Ish's. Both in their 40's with many years already with the company. KG was a pretty technical guy who inspired a lot of my technical thinking. I was thinking about KG just the other day and a conversation we once had about liquid cooling in liquid lines which he said was less with bigger pipes because the copper was thicker, the turbulance less and the ratio of liquid volume to copper surface area less too. I was thinking that this was in contradiction to what US Iceman said about oversizing liquid lines to increase liquid subcool. Maybe what US Iceman says is true if increased pressure drop is considered? Anyway, 4 years later after I qualified, these two were still the top tech's, naturally.




One swallow.........

Was this in Gauteng or Kwa Zulu??

Would be intresting to have a chat with these guys
Im sure they will have lots to say about their indenture

[DALO]

Marcy please release your biography next year. We can all read it instead of you clogging up this website with your ego trip. What is it with you and your self flag flying. How does your wife stand you???
What puzzles me too is how anyone can let their occupation take over their life, unless of course you dont have one outside of work.
I also think you may be one of those guys who was bullied at school and who at last has found some sort of attention or status within your working environment.
To me engineering be it Electrical and HVAC is interesting but just an occupation and a way of generating money but its not 24/7. Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Peter_1]

P O I N K ! ! ! !

[rbartlett]

Sorry, but I see only support for my argument, no valid refutation.

" none as blind as those who refuse to see.."

cheers

richard

[Abe]

Lol, this was Natal :)


Marc

What age were you when your family arrived in South Africa .

You were in your teens?? right ??

Were you there in the 60's 70's ??

I dont think so

So youre not even a proper South African,

And you have little experience of Transvaal

Im puzzled why you make out those Indians were top techs....

Yes, they may have been tops...........but as your spanner boys???

Youre an intelligent man, You might know how to diagnose a fridge. but dont try it with politics which you have no knowledge of, because you werent even there

It wont take long to track these boys down and ask them to tell us how good they are, or were

[Abe]

Marcy please release your biography next year. We can all read it instead of you clogging up this website with your ego trip. What is it with you and your self flag flying. How does your wife stand you???
What puzzles me too is how anyone can let their occupation take over their life, unless of course you dont have one outside of work.
I also think you may be one of those guys who was bullied at school and who at last has found some sort of attention or status within your working environment.
To me engineering be it Electrical and HVAC is interesting but just an occupation and a way of generating money but its not 24/7. Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Dalo,

When my father was dying, he said to me

Son, This is what I want to tell you,

"In Life........Always say you are nothing, Dont go on with your chest full and say you are Something"

What he was saying to me is live modestly, we have gifts, but dont be proud or bashful.

And this advice has augured me well.

Marc stumps out for his great South African ego trip, and how they have outclassed, eclipsed the Ozzies, The Brits..... or where ever else they have sought "refuge"

No wonder the "hosts" are miffed when granny is told how to suck an egg"

[Peter_1]

" none as blind as those who refuse to see.."

cheers

richard

What a nice chat between colleagues.
Must be very, very amusing to work at Fridgetech.

No wonder nobody replies to the job offer, even if 50 k should be paid.

[slingblade]

having read this thread in full it would seem that when the opinion of one person does not match the opinion of another there is little much either party can do to resolve the issue other than respond with post after post of near meaningless arguement. so i choose now to offer my opinion which is "Marc o'brien is a dic*head". i look forward now to a pointless and timewasting response.

[Temprite]

G'day all

Just adding my two cents worth.

We were advertising a new position for a tech at our company a couple of years ago.

The manager of a company we were sub contracting to doing minor repairs under warranty on a supermarket rack system told me to look at employing a south african tech as they were very good and he had employed a few recently.

One of the techs that replied to our advertisement was south african. I started calling some of his references. Indeed this chap was a brilliant tech but all his references said he had difficulties getting along with fellow employees and reading between the lines he was terribly racist.

He was over qualified for the position we were after.(We do small commercial and air cons,some small supermarkets). Apparentely good with computers. The largest thing he could dial up to with us would be a carel plantwatch that monitors a small supermarket. The techs get along pretty well and I didn't want someone to throw a spanner in the works.

What makes a good tech?

You have to be well rounded.It's not all completely about technical ability. I rate myself to have average technical ability but I never give up until I have an answer fo a customer. People really appreciate that type of attitude. Nothing pisses customers off more than a job that is left half completed.

Just another note on the Australian certificate on handling ozone depleting substances that you might find amusing. I was among one of the first apprentices that recieved the qualification. We recieved the examination in conjunction with our apprenticeship schooling.

One of the questions was:
How do you determine what refrigerant is contained within a particular system?

It was mutiple choice and one of the choices was:
"Look it up in the back of a phone book":D

Obviously the have made it more difficult since then(I hope..)

[Abe]

" none as blind as those who refuse to see.."

cheers

richard


Which about sums it up.

Members looking at a panoramic view, talking about it, yet the blind man refuting what they see, and telling them what they see is an illusion.

The crack is finally visible. When this Blind man did not set the record straight, is when the bubble burst.

I dont need to read my history books on apartheid. I experienced it first hand.

[Peter_1]

I quit this childish and boring thread.

[rbartlett]

What a nice chat between colleagues.
Must be very, very amusing to work at Fridgetech.

No wonder nobody replies to the job offer, even if 50 k should be paid.


sorry peter but the job is filled..

however there is absolutely no atmosphere at work as regards this forum. both Marc and i treat this place as relaxation and neither take it seriously.

i have known Marc for neigh on 10 years (and he me I guess although because he studies the old Briggs Mayer stuff it could be argued he knows me better than I him) so this is just fun..

cheers

richard

[frank]

I haven't come across very many Indian tech's in the UK.

the lads down at THERMAX chillers are Indian - very knowledgeable and a bunch of nice guys http://www.me-eng.co.uk/ :)

[Abe]

What on god's earth are you talking about??

Apartheid? Now you're on about Apartheid? What the heck has got into you, when did I enter into a discussion with you on Apartheid. In fact, I didn't bother because I could so no real error in what you said, none. Except to note that during my apprenticeship I came across something that you might consider a bit of an anomaly.

Abe, you're off your rocker, buddy, you've gone completely nuts!! :)


Gotcha Marc :D :D

Your mention of Indian techs was triggered by my statement that Indians were excluded from the selection process.

Your supposed ignorance of this feature exposed that you were in denial, not agreement.

Hence, the encroachment into apartheid.

Or, does someone who loves to argue, never openly accept when a valid statement is delivered???

[Abe]

Before I reply to that statement, could you please tell me, in regard to that statement, what the differences are between Rhodesia and South Africa?


Not much, but SA was deathly serious and hard core
If we stayed in SA my dad would have been cutting limestone in Robben Island


It is true that only in the late seventies were Indians allowed to enter the white market place. Up till then they had to train themselves at Sastry Technical College for Indians and they had to start their own business' serving their own population. This, I think, is why many of them preferred to become lawyers and accountants because it was a lot easier to start up on their own and find clients.


You admit that it was late seventies when they were finally allowed.........I cannot say about Natal, but in Gauteng, not even then.

In a nutshell, dont colour the fact that the Indians had their own schools, colleges, and it was a feat in itself trying to find a course in fridge or other trade.

You go find this mate of yours, Ill find not one, but ten others who can tell us about the good ole 70's and 80's


I think you should sit back and think about it a little more, I don't know your intelligence but I wish you would try harder with logical analysis and argument :)


I admit that Im not bright like you, I dont understand logical analyses and stuff........I only understand down to earth basic logic, which is necessary to survive in the Real world.....

:)



psssssssss. Will be more fun when one day we can sit and chat over a nice Indian curry?? What u say Marc??
:)

[Abe]

[QUOTE=Marc O'Brien]Sorry, Abe, but I never entered into any "discussion" with you on Apartheid. I merely made mention of something that seemed somewhat contrary (not contradictory) to what you said. I was thinking that you might have found it quite interesting that two of the small list of great tech's I worked under were Indian. They had the best vans and tools too to go with the position.



Ok, I accept that, the contrary, versus contradictory somehow got muddled.

Which it can often do, on these internet thingy's

:)

[rbartlett]

Indeed, I'm always up for a curry. I think Richard makes a curry every Friday. Or was that Nandoes Chicken? :)


nando's .........

our ding table seats 12 -feel free..

cheers

richard

[abdulazman]

Goodness gracious :confused: what do we have here? There's talk about indians, apartheid and SA. Are you guys discussing on human right or something ? Answer me this :mad: , Who created Apartheid ? Who dominated and oppress INDIA, MALAYSIA, INDONESIA, SOUTH AFRICA and the rest of the continent ? Grow up guys, we are here to discuss on technology, educating guys who had not or little knowledge about refrigeration trade and upgrade our fellow tradesman. This is a service stories section and not racist section.
Don't worry be happy :) :)

[Abe]

Abdul Aziz

It appears we are fighting, its a battle of wits and its not personal

:)

[abdulazman]

AIYUB,
Apologize for the misinterpretation.
By the way its abdulazman not aziz.
Good luck on you guys exploitation.
Don't heed what I've said ealier.
Cheerio

[Abe]

AIYUB,
Apologize for the misinterpretation.
By the way its abdulazman not aziz.
Good luck on you guys exploitation.
Don't heed what I've said ealier.
Cheerio

Apologies abdulazman

Do me a favour, tell that loonie, eccentric , mad man to shut up.

Some of us have a life to lead, not engage in fruitless and endless banter with weirdo philosophies.

Its like talking to a brick wall and if Im not careful, I will be tarnished with the same brush.

Period.

[DALO]

Marcy i shall wrap up this email as your now boring the s**t out of me. Talk about going around in circles.
Love the story about the cricket game, although highly fictional i didnt know you were related to Glen Mcgrath.
Very funny!!!! Id say you were more of the sit this one out with the halftime oranges and the fat weazy boys with a note from matron. But still if you want to live in a dream its better than the real world.

I leave you with the following advice and look forward to crossing hands again on another thread.

When people make claims of feats which do not belong to them, they become a laughing stock to those that know them....

A Sinine Pride.............Aesops Fables

[abdulazman]

Marc my friend,:confused:
What are you muttering about matie? I really don't understand. Jolly well tell us about your truth unhappiness. You sound strange and for the love of god talk something sensible and not latent. :o If you have to curse, curse by all means but do it humorously :eek: .
Thank you, Sir Marc the philospher. :) :)

[Temprite]

Temprite, I thought it was very clear minded of you to stick to the point. From the other replies I got one would think the debate was about whether or not South African tech's were the nicest or friendliest in the world - a topic I just wouldn't be interested in debating.



It's not always necessary to turn away from such opportunities. I know you said you also felt that he might have been over qualified but otherwise there are some great sources of successfully applied thought that work. I can recommend 3 books to start with:

Emotional Intelligence
Why it can matter more than IQ.
Daniel Coleman
ISBN 0-7475-2830-6

The Emotional Intelligence Quick Book
Everything you need to know to put your EQ to work
ISBN 0-7432-7326-5

The Emotionally Intelligent Manager
How to develop and use the four key emotional skills of leadership
ISBN 0-7879-7071-9

Valuable reading!

Thanks Marc.
The third book sounds interesting, I am somewhat of a novice a far as managing staff goes.

But I have learnt that the same approach doesnt always work for all people.

It depends on their behavioural style.

[hiitsme]

Hi,

I had the hungarian qualification "Ventilation and Air Conditioning Mechanic" and worked "down under" for a few months. Mostly installations (domestic)....

Needed the qualification assessment, and realized that the hungarian way of education does not match the NZ criterias. (after high school, as an adult you can get the qualification in a relative short time. I got the above qualification that way and meanwhile - also in Hungary - the "Industrial and Commercial Refrigeration Mechanic" qualification.). NZ does not assessed - at that time - trainings shorter than one year... it means that even if you have the qualification - which is OK for the whole EU - you are not eligible to work in NZ. After these I don't think that they REALLY have a shortage...
A few days ago I've just posted my application for trades recognition in Australia. Maybe they have different viewpoint. (or "different type" of shortage).
Until the result - or if the assessment will fail - I try to find work in the UK. Who knows.... maybe that's better for me...

[captain cook]

We are crying out for skilled people and this goes for the industry down here as a whole. Ther is a lot of mis imformation i think. any questions feel free to ask.

[rbartlett]

Has NZ ever won the Rugby Union World Cup? :D

On a more serious note, I never found out whether Crouded House were Oz or NZ?


I remember we had a brief chat about this a fair few years ago.. I remember you thinking them NZ and I AU

However as is normally the case I'm right

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Loge/4910/ch.html
http://www.geocities.com/jraldous/chhistory.html



Cheers

Richard

[captain cook]

To the musclehead from brussels.
In nz we get paid in nz dollars funny that, you cannot compare that to whatever currency you are paid in, we pay our bills in dollars too,how can you compare your hourly rate and mine ? also the nz qualifications authority have a comparison with the nz trade cert and other countries qualifications ie the city and guilds award is comparible but the certificate from say nigeria may be questionable, secondly they favour english speaking people for obvious reasons. if you want it bad enough you can get it...best wishes from paradise nb what happened to the fridgeman site ?

[Handyman-1]

Hi,
I was wondering how many of you ever considered taking your much needed skill over to Aotearoa - New Zealand

NZ has a skills shortage in many areas and Refrigeration engineering being one of them

Dear Tammy,

Am new kid in the block and trying to read as many posts as possible.

A lot from our country is moving to NZ. We are now very short with experienced engineers.
We need to train the young ones and will again lost them in the near future to place like yours.

Trying to find another post from you?
Still present in RE forum? :confused:

[winfred.dela]

Hi,
I was wondering how many of you ever considered taking your much needed skill over to Aotearoa - New Zealand

NZ has a skills shortage in many areas and Refrigeration engineering being one of them


Been sifting thru the RE forum threads & post for almost two months but have missed this one coz its in the polls.
Been enjoying the bantering of the originals. . .

Now am busy sending emails (that includes this link) to some Filipinos friends & relatives that are planning to leave for abroad.
Have lost 2 brothers (we are 5 engineers in the family) already to the GREAT BRAIN DRAIN and now waiting for another brother leaving for NZ (also the OZ?)

Its sad when the government is not doing enough while we have to see too much talent leaving our shores. . .
But of course, we cannot fault them trying to find a better place. . .
If only we can all find: Contentment which i believe is priceless. . . .

Now am rambling. . . . time to stop. . . . :o

[Abe]

Been sifting thru the RE forum threads & post for almost two months but have missed this one coz its in the polls.
Been enjoying the bantering of the originals. . .


Now am rambling. . . . time to stop. . . . :o

Your ramblings are good.....:)
Dont stop too much !

[Abby Normal]

Winfred, if you ever enable private messages from this forum, drop me a line concerning brain drain

[winfred.dela]

Winfred, if you ever enable private messages from this forum, drop me a line concerning brain drain

Hello Abby Normal,

Have sent you a PM, sorry have accidentally remove the tick @ buddy/ignore list.

Regards
Winfred :)

[Abby Normal]

It still says you have chosen not to receive, however I received one from you, but I cannot reply.

I have no solution on how to stop brain drain, I was actually going to encourage it.

[winfred.dela]

I have no solution on how to stop brain drain, I was actually going to encourage it.


I believe, there's no need pushing or encouraging.

Maybe for every hundred able bodied Filipinos, there maybe 90 willing to leave our country for better shores or vessels or anything that will make them a $ earner.

It could be nice if the recipient country will be willing to share the cost & burden of training. . . broken families . . . etc., etc. . . .

Hope you will be able to see the struggle of those that were left behind. . . .

[Abe]

Winfred Dela

There is only one way to stop the brain drain
Make your country into one where people want to stay

How do you achieve that?

An environment where people feel:

Safe
Justice
Appeals, Standards
Kids have future and education
No corruption
Systems like protocols
No nepotism
Equality and fairness
Help for poor and needy
Maybe you can help put some more points.......


How many countries can boast this?

The countries where people are desperate to go to, yes, Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand.....

You can have ther best weather in the world, the best outdoors, the best countryside.......the best wild life, if these features dont exist.....

People will desert that land
Just look at Zimbabwe

Once it was the Switzerland of Africa
Now it is a begging bowl

[Abby Normal]

I believe, there's no need pushing or encouraging.

Maybe for every hundred able bodied Filipinos, there maybe 90 willing to leave our country for better shores or vessels or anything that will make them a $ earner.

It could be nice if the recipient country will be willing to share the cost & burden of training. . . broken families . . . etc., etc. . . .

Hope you will be able to see the struggle of those that were left behind. . . .

I am a drained 'brain' myself. There is quite a community of your countryman and my countrymen as well as others from around the world. I believe a lot are sending their money home.

[Abby Normal]

Out of curiosity, there is a young fellow who I invested 5 years of training into who is now wondering around in your neck of the woods. He followed a woman a school teacher from here to Thailand.

She has since moved on to Manila, he is going through the processes of getting a work permit for Thailand, he is having the time of his life.

[winfred.dela]

Out of curiosity, there is a young fellow who I invested 5 years of training into who is now wondering around in your neck of the woods.


There's always that risk. He may come back though, you will then be able to recoup your efort. :)



He followed a woman a school teacher from here to Thailand.


Could it be Love? :)

[Abby Normal]

I had him talked into coming back,as I had two staff who opted to return to university for bachelor's degrees.

He parted ways with the woman he followed over there some months ago and she is now teaching in Manila. He was set to come back but then he found a new woman (Australian Aerobics Instructor) and has received a work permit as well.

It must be a low cost of living, as he seems to be surviving on minimal part time work from me ( drafting via the internet) or the fact that the bamboo grows bigger in his native Jamaica than it does in Thailand :)

Ahh to be young, dumb and full of **** again.

Trying to recruit help from Canada presently

[winfred.dela]

It must be a low cost of living, as he seems to be surviving on minimal part time work from me ( drafting via the internet) or the fact that the bamboo grows bigger in his native Jamaica than it does in Thailand
:)


I believe the cost of living could be like in my farm (approx US$50 per person per month).

If i finish design & drawing in Autocad - maybe six (6) sheets in a week - and my American friend based in Wisconsin pays me US$50/sheet. With a week's income, i may live for 6 months just doing gardening, feeding some chickens, pigs, sheeps or maybe fishing in some river.
So, for 2 weeks work at same liesurely rate. . . I can have a year of vacation!

Nice life. :)

It's because of the technology, we can draw in Autocad in some mountains and then email the drawing to almost anywhere in the world. :)

[Abby Normal]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, I make a lot of jokes about being stereotyped as being from Giilligan's Island, but perhaps the low cost of living encourages the exodus for higher wages.

The currency here is fixed to be worth US $1.20. When I moved here from Canada, the Canadian dollar was worth US 70 cents, dropped even lower. Unfortunately the US dollar has dropped and the Canadian dollar has rsien significantly.

Is it possible to seek work over seas and send a relatviely high amount of cash home?

[Abby Normal]

I will have to quote you on that $50 a sheet next time my young friend does some work. I am being fleeced :)

[winfred.dela]

I will have to quote you on that $50 a sheet next time my young friend does some work. I am being fleeced :)

No problem with that. :)

You need a proof? Can also send a formal quote :D :D :D

[winfred.dela]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, I make a lot of jokes about being stereotyped as being from Giilligan's Island, but perhaps the low cost of living encourages the exodus for higher wages.


Sorry Sir, but am not being sarcastic. The amount being quoted are actual.

And, its the main reason for this new phenomenon: The Filipino Diaspora.



The currency here is fixed to be worth US $1.20. When I moved here from Canada, the Canadian dollar was worth US 70 cents, dropped even lower. Unfortunately the US dollar has dropped and the Canadian dollar has rsien significantly.

Is it possible to seek work over seas and send a relatviely high amount of cash home?


Always possible. . . :)

Especially if the OFW (overseas foreign worker) live frugally abroad and send 80% of his wage back home.
At US$1,000.00 per month, an OFW can send a brother or another sister to college.

[Abby Normal]

No problem with that. :)

You need a proof? Can also send a formal quote :D :D :D


Well, I am thinking he could then be living pretty good on what I am paying him. Being the cheapskate that I am, I think I could grind him down. May encourage him to move back :)

I have the young fellow doing electrical and plumbing work right now.

[winfred.dela]

Winfred Dela,

There is only one way to stop the brain drain
Make your country into one where people want to stay

How do you achieve that?

An environment where people feel:

Safe
Justice
Appeals, Standards
Kids have future and education
No corruption
Systems like protocols
No nepotism
Equality and fairness
Help for poor and needy
Maybe you can help put some more points.......



Sorry for delayed reply.
i have already made one (preview stage) yesterday but then i have to leave the computer & answer some questions from my smart kid (5 yrs old/only one) doing a sort of home schooling. Its already blank when i came back, so am making one again.

Now, my additional comments: a portion of an email from my college classmate now living in North America:


In the interview by Paul Bradshaw with Rick Warren (author of Purpose Driven Life), Rick said: People ask me, What is the purpose of life? And I respond: In a nutshell, life is preparation for eternity.
. . . . .
Life is a series of problems: Either you are in one now, you're just coming out of one, or you're getting ready to go into another one.
. . . .
I used to think that life was hills and valleys - you go through a dark time, then you go to the mountaintop, back and forth. I don't believe that anymore.

Rather than life being hills and valleys, I believe that it's kind of like two rails on a railroad track, and at all times you have something good and something bad in your life.

No matter how good things are in your life, there is always something bad that needs to be worked on.

And no matter how bad things are in your life, there is always something good you can thank God for.

You can focus on your purposes, or you can focus on your problems.
. . . .


In my humble opinion, Our country's life is in the same predicament with each of our lives, so. . .


Rather than life being hills and valleys, I believe that it's kind of like two rails on a railroad track . . .


Of course, i realized long ago that am into wishful thinking: have a stop on the so called brain drain that started decades ago.

The consolation we can have, maybe was the one offered by Jessica Zafra in her book Twisted (i still have to buy one of hers): World domination by sheer numbers. :D :D :D

I think this is again another wishful thinking not from me but from the next generation of
techno literate Gen Xers. . . . :)

This is now too long. . . time to make a stop. :)

[R. skiffington]

Hi guys,

As a kiwi fridgy, I can understand how you can see the wages in NZ as dismal, if you're converting it to pounds or USD, but really the money is not bad, i'm now living in London, only to do some travelling, and I honestly had a lot more disposeable income in NZ, but it's not the pound. As for being looked after, the last cpmpany I worked for was Brilliant, we were a good time, it was a happy place to work for. As for working in london, absolutely impersonal, no comradery, just feel like a number. Looking forward to going home, oh and from what i've seen the skill level of the average engineer in NZ is very high, compared to london anyway.

[Stuart Clark]

I'm from NZ, and haven't been employed full time since 1998 in Wgtn. I've been back many times but when I get poor job offers like - $25/h for a 44 hr week and have to supply my own mop bucket and rags etc from companies like ABS. That was this year, on top of this putting up with the contracts act for nearly a decade and paying for my own higher education - A Trade, Stages 1,2,3, and part of 4 and 5 NZCE IM+C. There is only so many years in a career and one needs to make some money for retirement

Thank you

Stu Clark

[hendrag]

Hi ive just done the points test and got 205 points, i lied and said i had a job offer in NZ.

If anyone wants to interview me im in NZ over xmas.

regards
hendrag

[Frudge it]

Hi Tammy ,
Firstly I'm an expat Kiwi - living abroad permanently as a citizen of Australia.I'm an old fart & exited the NZ stage in 1990.The main reason being the then Insular NZ national Attitude , along with the straw polls of Privatising the Forestry , and telephone industries.Remember how GST Started over there , with the sideline actions of the banking industry being instructed by the then finance minister to foreclose on farming loans & business loans , along with attendant suicide rates & dislocations of generational farming families.Remember the Vote we all then had to have of whether we approve of GST being bought in & the add on of ' If you vote for GST , you approve of privitisation "....?Most kiwis said " looks like we'll be all right - yep we'll vote for it , then when their brothers & sisters became effected in the banking dragnet to right the books internationally to maintain an international banking rating of AAA with Moodys....! , dropped them like hot potatoes.Then today we see : NZ has no social welfare problem advertised in the international glossies - BUT a private organisation exists called "welfare corp" , thats receives an indiscreet " annual donation " from the Govt coffers in the budget under " miscellaneous spending ".This is typical of the deceptions that go on in NZ.I dont blame overseas fridgies for bypassing NZ , all of the preceding is the ethos of living there , then theres the way the business end is structured, with owners determind to make their take from your labour.It was a joke while I was there , in most companies , around 30 % or more of the service guys couldnt be contacted for after hours calls , as they are busy doing "foreigners" , or "homies" - ( Private work) to make ends meet & save a bit to get ahead.There was only 2 Companies that I could name as dinkum in paying their guys & actually having the work available.In many cases if you had an personal problems , they'd just drop you like a sack of spuds.I wonder if you can answer via this forum , if any of these things has changed - havent been back for over 6 years now.Each time I do go back , I feel bored & want to get back here to Oz , where Life feels like its happening.
I lived in the Waikato , BOP , Canterbury ( Incl CHCH) and Northland , so feel qualified to talk about a few of those areas.
Cheers...

[Tesla]

It's the old adage - you get what you pay for + reep what you sow. I completed my apprenticeship in NZ and have no regrets leaving. Now I work in Ausi but fear what happened in NZ is about to happen in Ausi. Called differant names meaning the same - Contracts Act for NZ, or Industrial Relations for Ausi. These laws removed the workers protection and rights, as a result lower wages and dimminished conditions. Screw the politicians

[cameron.e]

Hi tammy im considering on moving to nz from sa,due to the way things are going on here in sa,I have my diploma in refrigeration with 8 years experience in industrial and commercial ref and a/c currently im running my own company which is doing great,but as I said things are going down hill in sa,so if you are interested:D contact me at email:demandcooling@telkomsa.net.cheers

[markacs]

My Daughter Is In New Zealand.

Have Considered Jumping Ship But Am Some What Of A Patriot.i Love South Africa.
Not Too Sure Of What The Rates Or Salaries Are Over In N Z.
Has Anybody Seriously Looked At What The Accountants And Directors (financial) Of Large Hvac Companies Earn?loads Of Bucks!!!they Dont Know The Difference Between An A/c And A Refrigerator.take Out The Technical Engineers And The Techs And They(accountants Etc.) Dont Have A Job!
I Do All Of My Own Accounting Work Successfully And It Is Not Rocket Science.but I Would Never Let An Accountant Loose On My A/c Or Cooler.
From A Qualified Industrial Ref Mechanic!i Say We Must Charge Accountant Rates To Repair Chillers And A/c's Really Sort The Men Out From Boys.

[DALO]

FRUDGEITs advice is well warranted. Although i cant comment on New Zealand lets look at a few facts. Im a POME living in Australia. Knowing how companies operate i can assure you that if they are looking for overseas workers it means they are really looking for cheap labour. All this codswallop about skills shortages is just smoke and mirrors. In the last 6 years in Australia the 'TOP' refrigeration mechanics wages have increased from $20 an hour to $30-$32. Many more less experienced guys are on far less than that.
U dont need a degree in economics to realise that they have increased at the same rate as inflation. Also according to the Sydney Morning Herald survey of wages, tradesmen are the 3rd lowest earning occupation in the country. Indeed its common practice for most guys to seek overtime or black market work just to make ends meet.
This is hardly evidence of being in demand.
Also be careful with the attitude displayedby the Kiwi who claims he was the best tradesmen in London. This is a popular attitude from the backward countries and can cause problems when you arrive in countries like NZ, Canada etc. The local authorities paranoid that their standards are a laughing stock will humiliate migrants into taking ridiculous tests and delay the candidates to equal rights and money in the process.
May i remind the KIWI that AS/NZ 3000 wiring rules is virtually a direct copy of British Wiring rules.

[Frudge it]

Hi Dalo ,
Yes good observations.You'd no doubt heard of the aussie saying - "puttin tickets on yourself , and you have to be careful they all dont blow away off you".<Sums it quite nicely....>.You're young for a pom working abroad in aussie !
Cheers

[The MG Pony]

Well I'd as all ways love to move to Nz even got a place to stay there, but immigration is a horrid nightmare to over come.

So any one hiring in Auckland? Been a hobby for 4 years and nearly don a Trades entry cert course that basicly sets me to about 1st to second year level!

Not to mention good sense of humour and I come with a healthy set of sheep jokes ;)

[nedgus2]

This is a very interesting thread/debate you have started here and as a migrant of Australia i think i should warn anybody before they take the plunge. As a United Kingdom refrigeration mechanic i went for a short holiday to Oz 5 years ago and was sponsored by a local company to work as a refrigeration mechanic. They had to provide evidence that they couldnt employ a local to justify bringing me into the country. It was pretty easy as mechanic(engineers) are on their hotlist. So after immigration checked my apprenticeship papers, college results and references to say id been in the trade for 10 years and taking $2000aus out of my pocket i was in.

But conveniently nobody informed me that although my qualifications were good enough to get in the country they werent good enough for the department of Fair Trading to issue myself with a license. This seemed bizarre. I thought ok genuine mistake. But it wasnt and i was in for a major shock.
To get the full license i had to enrol on two TAFE courses, CFC refrigerants and Restricted Electrical work.

So in fact your a fridgy who is not allowed to handle gases or disconnect and reconnect motors. In other words your unemployable. Their excuse was and still is that Australia works to the highest standards in the world. Now before you all roll around on the floor laughing and rupturing your rib cages as i did. This becomes a major problem for anyone becasue its very difficult to get on a TAFE (College) course unless your an Aussie apprentice.

Add to that some of the course modules the government ask you to complete are not available anywhere and your in trouble.

It took me over a year to get on the courses and a year to complete with the humiliation of studying in a class with people who had never used a fluke meter before and learning about ohms law (O level physics) The final test was connecting a flex cord to a 3 pin plug and testing a 240 live supply.
Add to that financial expenses which you pay for and its infuriating.

The final insult is when the Federal and State governments decide to change the licensing laws and revoke your license leaving only Aussies with the Australian papers eligible to work.

So Marc no offence but your HND or certificate 5 wouldnt be worth anything here and youd be back to school like many other highly skilled engineers from all over the world.

Cant comment on New Zealand but i imagine their very similar, in my experience the more backwards the country the more xenophobic they are.

Theres a moral to this story but i cant think what. Hi dalo i know that you did this post some time ago , but from reading it you are a chap who is in the know . at the moment i am going through the new vetassess process [ at the tune of £900 ] i have passed the paper based assessment , now i have to sit a practical assessment in the uk , once i have completed this i aparently will be issued with a provisional licence that enables me to work as a refrigeration engineer under supervision , until i have passed the restricted wiring and refrigerant handling exams [ licences ] . going off your experience it sounds like you had a nightmare of a time to get where you are today , i find it absolute madness that a city and guild qualified engineer is regarded less experienced than an apprentice , granted you are in a different country and have to prove your competence in the industry but i think from what i have read and heard , it seems that the australian assessment criteria is ridiculous , i mean bloody hell its not like were rocket propulsion scientists , surely the practical skills assessmet should be sufficient , regarding the refrigerant handling the c & g 2078 is as diciplined as they come , i know you know all this , i just cant understand the australian goverment , they go on about a skills shortage in their country and that they want [ need ] qualified tradespersons to fill their labour gap , but give you no help whatsoever in training and employment issues , its madness . Is it still the same as the TRA assessment or has the goverment relaxed the rules a little . [regardless i will have to do it ] regards , karl.

[jjthefridge]

NZ yea, looking into it planning on going out soon to have a gander, see what the countries like. About to send off all qualls to nzqa to get assessed. Then fingers crossed.

[DALO]

Karl i have just seen your post. I havent been on this site for a while??
What is Vetassess???
Is it the Australian Vocational training board assessment of you??
Why are you doing it if you have C & Guilds already??
Let me know.

[FreezerGeezer]

Karl i have just seen your post. I havent been on this site for a while??
What is Vetassess??? A private firm who have been charged with running the assesment program as far as I can see.
Is it the Australian Vocational training board assessment of you??
Why are you doing it if you have C & Guilds already?? In my case, it's because ArTick say that you cannot be granted a refrigerant handling licence wihtout passing the assesment, added to which job agencies have told me that I cannot work without passing the assesment. I hold an HNC. Go figure. :rolleyes:
Let me know.

What really rankles is that they know we are well trained, especially if we have a piece of paper (I agree that most of th eold hands without a pice of paper can run rings around me, before you start! ;) ), and yet we have to pay to go through this process designed for those without recognisible qualifications! So far as I know that's not the case for tech's coming this way?

[nedgus2]

Karl i have just seen your post. I havent been on this site for a while??
What is Vetassess???
Is it the Australian Vocational training board assessment of you??
Why are you doing it if you have C & Guilds already??
Let me know. hi dalo nice to talk to you , regarding vetassess , it is an assessing body similar to the tra , they have taken over from tra for assessing refrigeration engineers and various other trades including sparkys since the begining of september this year , it doesnt matter weather you hold city and guilds or even a diploma in the trade ,you still have to sit there practical skills assessment , what i am more concerned about is getting the restricted wiring licence and refrigerant handling[ how long does it take whats involved etc] , my main worry is when i get the visa [ if ] , i would have limited funds and could not support my family for a long duration without decent employment , so it does bother me a little regarding the licences, from what i have seen so far the selection criteria is bonkers regarding our trade , but what will be will be . regards .
karl.

[allanbaker]

I know this is a bit late .....or after the whole arguement, in 2006
but where there is smoke there is fire!! At least South Africans are talked about as being the best in the world.....i dont see that happening anywhere else. Secondly consirdering that we are a third world country i must say that South Africans have done pretty well. And to the New Zealanders Proms and Ozzies sorry about the world cup (rugby that is)

[DALO]

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/business/businesslicences.html

Karl you have to be careful. You are getting involved with Artick who are federal and hand out the refrigerant users license you may need the state license as well.
Click on the link for NSW fairtrading who issue all state licenses.

[The MG Pony]

Funny thing about the last pol question is what if you happen to quite like sheep?

[sighman]

We had a similar experience in NZ. We got a job offer for Queenstown (amazing place / lifestyle, great scenary, but don't bother coming here if you are not earning crazy money - above London cost of living and p*ss poor wages / prospects). We needed to get A&B electrical licence to be a practicing engineer. The problem is a) they are so laid back here, neither the employer NOR THE REGULATING BODY gave a monkeys about training (despite promises to lure us out here (employer)), and I have had to fight tooth and nail to get qualified and registered (I have C&G 2 and 3 from UK). Also, if you do not live in Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch, it is a nightmare trying to get training - they don't believe in rural education here! Finally after 15 months, I should be qualified on Monday - but only because I pushed it all the way. I was even spot inspected by the EWRB (Electrical Workers registration Board), who came in for a cup of tea, ticked a box and left without assessing me at all). Overall, I think Canada would have been a better option (something we would never have considered until we lived here!!!!!)

[sighman]

Re above - not dissing NZ - lovely place, but all things considered, a great chapter in our lives, but not the final book!!!:o)

[Toosh]

We had a similar experience in NZ. We got a job offer for Queenstown (amazing place / lifestyle, great scenary, but don't bother coming here if you are not earning crazy money - above London cost of living and p*ss poor wages / prospects). We needed to get A&B electrical licence to be a practicing engineer. The problem is a) they are so laid back here, neither the employer NOR THE REGULATING BODY gave a monkeys about training (despite promises to lure us out here (employer)), and I have had to fight tooth and nail to get qualified and registered (I have C&G 2 and 3 from UK). Also, if you do not live in Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch, it is a nightmare trying to get training - they don't believe in rural education here! Finally after 15 months, I should be qualified on Monday - but only because I pushed it all the way. I was even spot inspected by the EWRB (Electrical Workers registration Board), who came in for a cup of tea, ticked a box and left without assessing me at all). Overall, I think Canada would have been a better option (something we would never have considered until we lived here!!!!!)

Hi, Canada is a great place been there but up to your @r$e in snow and freezing your nuts of half the year standing on roofs working on heat/cool units in the winter, I took it for 12 years but it got to me in the end

Norm