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Grizzly
12-01-2012, 05:36 PM
An Electrician that can understand "Fridge" is as they say " worth their weight in Gold"!

However when that said Electrician works past retirement and shall we say is "not quite as sharp as he once was". Add failing eyesight as well!
You get problems.
Several months ago I get called to a particular site with the very experienced site engineer.
Who is complaining that his Witt GP 41 Ammonia pump is not working. It is spinning but has no pressure diff across it.
(Over the phone)
What's been done to it recently?
The pump contactor failed and it was replaced by "The Electrician".
Who has checked it out?
The Electrician.
Is it running the correct way? .. Yes!
Are all 3 phase supplies correct?... Yes!

So I turn up and Electrician MK2 ( His middle aged son) is on site also.
In a very quick time discover that the pump is running backwards...
Mk2 swaps the phases over, pump spinning the correct way.
All is good!

Visit by me Monday as Plant malfunctioning and site engineer has had enough.

Whats been done all the contactors and pressure switches related have been checked and where necessary changed.
By Whom?
The Electrician!!!!!

OK, Plant ran up and 2 completely worn out PML Valves were discovered.
Said Valves were couriered over from Denmark.
With my colleague attending today to fit them.

Phoned colleague this afternoon.
"Hows it going?"
Polite answer.... "Not Well" or words to that effect.. (Read how come I get this Job and not you?)
1 system is fine the other will not operate correctly.
Sorry!

3hrs later.. It's t's all sorted customer is very happy his plant is working again.
What Happened?
1 of the main Solenoid contactors which had been replaced by said Electrician.
Was wired across the N/O contact instead of the N/C.....

Result.
Customer looking for a new Electrician..


Grizzly

stufus
12-01-2012, 06:01 PM
But will the customer get the outgoing sparks to show the new guy the ropes;)
Failing eyesight is not an excuse for negligence:cool: , simple wiring mistakes can have drastic consequences for tech's and machinery .
Sound's like you owe your colleague a beer ,or were you pulling rank or settling a score.:)
Cheers
Stu

Grizzly
12-01-2012, 06:11 PM
Hi Stu.
We will help break the new guy in.
My colleague was standing in for me as I have a do to go to and guessed it might be a long day.
I am sure I will be able to return the favour.
I will allow him a snifter!
We both have a leaking Ammonia plant to investigate tomorrow!
Grizzly

monkey spanners
12-01-2012, 09:02 PM
Have had similar experiences with our sparky friends, i remember one pair whose catch phrase of "you can't odds it can you pete, no you can't odds it mate" use to accompany evey fcuk up and blown fuse.

Then you get the "sparky got it running again but its still not cooling" and you find it was off on LP cos the solenoid died...

Not sure they are allowed to touch any hfc hcfc system now anyway as work that could lead to a leak (if done wrong) should only be done by those qualified.

install monkey
12-01-2012, 11:18 PM
sparkies should stick to housebashing and fitting outside lights,as soon as controls enter the equasion then it all goes pear shaped, i was the 4th person to look at a control panel i built 7yr ago, apparently the control breaker keeps banging out, after i discovered the frost stat contact welded,and that was on yellow phase,control circuit on red,hence when timeclock said run,bang, rewired frost stat off the red-control circuit,all ok,previous visitors had condemned the water heater!! and blew the timeclock whilst diagnosing

MikeHolm
13-01-2012, 12:22 AM
Haha thats funny, condemned the water heater. There are sparkies and then there are sparkies. The ones I work with, luckly, are great at controls.

chillerman2006
13-01-2012, 12:27 AM
I will have to dig out the picture of a trane chiller control panel that took me 2 days to sort because of some bright sparkie and his roll of red wire :rolleyes:

And whilst am here 'happy new Grizzly'

Magoo
13-01-2012, 12:55 AM
Hi Grizzly and Happy New Year.
Had a good laugh with old electrician experience. Currently having dramas with a new generation so-called electrician. Long story short, installing a toy freezer for a client, sent all the electrical requirements for freezer to clients electrician, FLA and LRA for cable sizing and supply to mains isolator. Firstly electrician did not understand LRA and FLA, and the defrost current draw, and why did the defrost not add to cable loads, well after a short lesson in basics, and me telling him that he should stay with lights and power outlets he got all hissy. Should be an interesting little job. With age I don't get more polite.
I get this sort of thing all the time, having to instruct bleedin'electricians on how to do their registared work

Frikkie
28-02-2012, 09:42 PM
I have electrical qualifications and used to design systems for the railways before I became a lecturer and eventually retired.

I think the problem is that after the apprentceships became scarce electricians as well as other tradesmen didn't get the full background training, their training became shorter and they got less on site experience. Many modern day electricians have a fair understanding of the basics and a good understanding of their particular area of operation but if you take them out of their comfort area they fall flat.

Magoo
01-03-2012, 01:06 AM
Frikkie.
you have got it in one statement, its called dumbing down trades, to be specialized in a specifiic aspect of any trade, and the systems pump them out by the thousands in a couple of years of so called training. And as well it is a global problem.

cadwaladr
02-03-2012, 08:51 PM
i had an experience with a electrician who did some lecturing at a college,anyway he rang me from a customers site where i did the fridge repairs and he did electrical work telling me that there must be a big problem with a 4hp prestcold condensing unit he had changed the fuses[fuse wire] and said the fused isolator is hot to touch when the compressor is running,he had replaced the fuse wire with resistance wire plonker!

install monkey
02-03-2012, 09:16 PM
its not just electricians who are lacking common sense- iv been to a school in wales where heating eng/plumbers fitted a new boiler plant on the old pipework, they left it on a gravity fill system-the tank was 4 floors up,and with all the leaking pipework-from olives,corrosion,etc the header tank connects to the system in the boiler room in the basement-so there is enough pressure at low level to prevent the tank from topping up the system! these problems have been going on for over 6 months-and me and a htg eng sussed it out- were gonna repipe the outlet form the tank to the highest leg of the system to enable filling- then were gonna vent everywhere- as its gonna be full of air-!!

I have electrical qualifications and used to design systems for the railways before I became a lecturer and eventually retired.

I think the problem is that after the apprentceships became scarce electricians as well as other tradesmen didn't get the full background training, their training became shorter and they got less on site experience. Many modern day electricians have a fair understanding of the basics and a good understanding of their particular area of operation but if you take them out of their comfort area they fall flat.

Magoo
03-03-2012, 04:40 AM
Hi all.
an up date on my toy freezer install. New sparkie/electrician. Gave him all the usual stuff FLA and RLa info, cable runs etc., from mains supply board, gave him hand drawn control schematics yardy yardy. A totally snap quick install all and sundry 90% correct. Problem with controls, had to re-wire myself. Chhhhhez give me strength, and I am a dumb frigie.
Grumpy Magoo, hate to think if I spec'd a PLC control system.

MikeHolm
03-03-2012, 05:19 PM
its not just electricians who are lacking common sense- iv been to a school in wales where heating eng/plumbers fitted a new boiler plant on the old pipework, they left it on a gravity fill system-the tank was 4 floors up,and with all the leaking pipework-from olives,corrosion,etc the header tank connects to the system in the boiler room in the basement-so there is enough pressure at low level to prevent the tank from topping up the system! these problems have been going on for over 6 months-and me and a htg eng sussed it out- were gonna repipe the outlet form the tank to the highest leg of the system to enable filling- then were gonna vent everywhere- as its gonna be full of air-!!


I know this comment is not about electricians but can't you British just use pressure reducing valves and bladder expansion tanks and do away with the tanks X floors up. It makes life so much easier.

install monkey
03-03-2012, 07:48 PM
could do, but this is an old system - the primary circuit is off a pressurisation unit but the secondary through the buffer vessel is gravity fed??

I know this comment is not about electricians but can't you British just use pressure reducing valves and bladder expansion tanks and do away with the tanks X floors up. It makes life so much easier.